Onecoin announced the roadmap to public

Here we will post all original accusations and arguments people who hate onecoin wrote all over blogs and comments. We will deeply analyze, dissect and answer everything with objective arguments. People will be left to decide which arguments are more logical and true to them
SwissAndrew
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:42 pm

Re: Onecoin announced the roadmap to public

Post by SwissAndrew » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:14 am

Igor,
one thing that has always puzzled me and to which I have not yet had a satisfactory answer.

How many nodes does a database have to run on to qualify as a blockchain ?
(eg. how many nodes does OC run ?)
Last edited by SwissAndrew on Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SwissAndrew
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:42 pm

Re: Onecoin announced the roadmap to public

Post by SwissAndrew » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:59 am

next question:

what is the consensus algorithm used in a private blockchain - does it even need one ?
Last edited by SwissAndrew on Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Igorkrnic
Site Admin
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Re: Onecoin announced the roadmap to public

Post by Igorkrnic » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:01 pm

SwissAndrew wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:14 am
Igor,
one thing that has always puzzled me and to which I have not yet had a satisfactory answer.

How many nodes does a database have to run on to qualify as a blockchain ?
It can have only one node with 100% hashing power just as Onecoin has right now, but for many crypto purists, decentralized gurus, that is not the point of the blockchain and according to them you do not need to have a blockchain if you are a centralized company.
They forget, however, that they are actually talking about Distributed ledger technology that has been around for more than 30 years that the blockchain only derived from, and where blockchain is simply immutable, temper proof database that you can also distribute globally to improve the trustless system. But then again, it shrinks possible market of users cause the majority of non-IT people find this system very hard and unsafe to use cause in case they get scammed or hacked, no one can help them. It is know today that most public blockchain have 2-3 entities controlling more than 50% of hashing power so it is not so trustless after all, and we've also seen that in action with BCH fork hash wars recently.
So the advantage for the bank to have a permission centralized blockchain over sql or similar database is definitely its temper proof cause admins cannot change stored data and also, if they have branches on different continents, they will own more nodes and blockchain will sync easily upon the start of the node. I happen to host some nodes so I've seen it with my own eyes.

When it gets to Onecoin, I believe at some time in the future, all dealshaker franchize owners could also be given option or even be required (depends on local regulations) to also host their own node for the blockchain just like all Bank branches need to host local database directly in the country where they are opening branch. But this can only happen after all the coins are mined.

Igorkrnic
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Re: Onecoin announced the roadmap to public

Post by Igorkrnic » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:03 pm

SwissAndrew wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:59 am
next question:

what is the consensus algorithm used in a private blockchain - does it even need one ?
What ever you like. There are a ton of open source codes out there, the company can use any of them, rewrite it, make it closed source and use that software for their purposes. One of the blockchains that is largely being used by companies to transfer from sql to blockchain is Hyperledger. Initially released by IBM but is not open source, I think maintained by the Linux open source community.
My friend is a developer that does that for the living, charging companies money to transfer their business from sql or similar to the blockchain.

SwissAndrew
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:42 pm

Re: Onecoin announced the roadmap to public

Post by SwissAndrew » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:09 pm

as usual, Igor, great answers - thanks

DelPiero
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Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:33 am

Re: Onecoin announced the roadmap to public

Post by DelPiero » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:43 am

In regards to GDPR i was actually wondering how to remove Your KYC from the Onecoin blockchain?
I havent read any GDPR related for onecoin ltd our onelife ltd

Is this even possible for Onecoins support to facilitate?
Im thinking that closing and deleting an account should be a nobrainer but is it equaly easy to remove KYC stored in the chain?

Btw theres no "cookie compliance" even on onecoin.eu?

Do you know why Igor? (i havent asked support yet)

SwissAndrew
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:42 pm

Re: Onecoin announced the roadmap to public

Post by SwissAndrew » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:27 pm

DelPiero wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:43 am
Im thinking that closing and deleting an account should be a nobrainer but is it equaly easy to remove KYC stored in the chain?
I would think that with the deletion of an account record, the residual KYC data on the blockchain becomes unlinked and thus, in effect, useless for any 3rd party ??

Igorkrnic
Site Admin
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Re: Onecoin announced the roadmap to public

Post by Igorkrnic » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:52 pm

DelPiero wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:43 am
In regards to GDPR i was actually wondering how to remove Your KYC from the Onecoin blockchain?
I havent read any GDPR related for onecoin ltd our onelife ltd

Is this even possible for Onecoins support to facilitate?
Im thinking that closing and deleting an account should be a nobrainer but is it equaly easy to remove KYC stored in the chain?
Let me try to explain in a little more detail about this GDPR stuff.
GDPR requires accountability for the processing of personal data. Parties who engage in data processing are called "controllers" or "processors."
A data controller is the party that determines "the purposes and means" of processing. A data processor follows the controller’s instructions and process data on behalf of the controller.

Under GDPR, the parties involved in data processing need to determine their roles as controllers or processors and agree a contract that sets out their responsibilities.

GDPR gives individuals rights as a "data subject":
- You have the right to request access to the information that a company holds about you.
- If that information is incorrect, you have the right to ask them to correct it.
- If you don’t want a company to keep certain information, you have the right to request that they delete it.

1) Let's say you set up an open blockchain, also called a ‘public’ or ‘permissionless’ system.
To do so, you can prepare blockchain software and make it publicly available. Anybody can download the software and run it on their local machine. Anyone who does becomes a node. Nodes keep a local copy of the blockchain and connect to other nodes across a peer-to-peer network that keeps the blockchain up to date. The result could be thousands of nodes. This is a very resilient system – but it’s also very complicated from a GDPR perspective.

Let’s consider accountability. The company that designed the application don’t necessarily process any personal data themselves through the blockchain. The nodes do. But the nodes don’t have any control over how the system works. So how are all these parties supposed to conclude controller-processor agreements? Hardly.

Now, let’s look at data subject rights. If someone no longer wants some of his/her personal data stored on the blockchain, how will the company comply with this request for deletion? They would have to convince every node to remove data from their local copy. And even if the nodes agree, blockchain technology presents a problem. Removing data changes a block’s hash, which messes up the hash pointers that link blocks together in a chain.

Think twice about all those public / open blockchain currency projects that are out there promoting cause they have two major obstacles that make them impossible to comply with EU GDPR.

So, how can companies use blockchain tech to comply with GDPR?

2) The company could instead set up a closed blockchain, a "private" or "permissioned system".
To do so, they simply run the blockchain software themselves. They either use their local machines or rent space in the cloud. They would be the only node in a closed, private network.

From a GDPR perspective, this is a much simpler setup. In terms of accountability, the company set up and run the system themselves. So, they might qualify as controllers. A cloud service provider would be a processor since it processes data on behalf of the company. So the company and the cloud provider need to sign controller-processor agreements. And there you go half way in GDPR compliance with the blockchain tech.

Now let's see data subject rights. They would need to design clever solutions cause they need to provide consumers the right to:
- Search for all instances of personal data relating to a named individual.
- Extract that data and provide it to the individual in a portable format.
- Edit or remove the data on request.
First two should not be so difficult but what about editing and removing data from a blockchain?
Blockchain data are not really immutable, they’re just hard to change. Nodes control all copies of the blockchain. They can change the data stored on the chain by moving to a new version, called ‘forking.’
So, if the company needs to delete some data relating to a certain individual from a previous block, this would break the hash pointers between the blocks, the company can simply update the links by re-hashing the blocks. Since there’s no need to use heavy proof-of-work on a private blockchain, this should not require much computational effort.

Crypto purists could argue that this defeats the point of using blockchain in the first place and that is one of the arguments Onecoin critics have against the company vision, cause if the company can change the data on the chain, then outsiders can no longer independently verify the blockchain’s integrity.

But as more regulations come, this might prove the right way to go for some projects. Onecoin definitely seems like one of them, cause when it comes to usecase that needs to comply with regulations, outsiders will simply need to trust private blockchain operators to maintain the ledger.

DelPiero wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:43 am
Btw theres no "cookie compliance" even on onecoin.eu?
Do you know why Igor? (i havent asked support yet)
As far as I know, GRPD stuff is ready legally but they always wait for the IT team for something. And we will agree, split, coinsafe issue and some bugs are more important to solve than to implement full GDPR for site that is not even used yet. They will sort that out eventually.

Igorkrnic
Site Admin
Posts: 1732
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Re: Onecoin announced the roadmap to public

Post by Igorkrnic » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:17 pm

SwissAndrew wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:27 pm
I would think that with the deletion of an account record, the residual KYC data on the blockchain becomes unlinked and thus, in effect, useless for any 3rd party ??
Yes in case they just link hash from the block with actual off-chain data then they do not have any headaches with GDPR.
So, in case of the change or deletion, they do not need to re-hash blocks, simply change off-chain data and hash from the block will still point to that changed data. Or if total deletion is demanded, the hash will point to the invalid link.

Jtosho
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:20 am

Re: Onecoin announced the roadmap to public

Post by Jtosho » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:00 pm

I've got few question on the new dealshaker platform
1. With the Beta version can we buy good on it now ?
2. I had my kyc approved and today i checked again, it's decline now because my passport expire, can i get my kyc with this beta version or just upload another on onelife.eu ?
3. If I can get my kyc through the newdealshaker platform, is there any link to upload documentations ?

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