How credible BITCOIN's "value" is

Here we will post all original accusations and arguments people who hate onecoin wrote all over blogs and comments. We will deeply analyze, dissect and answer everything with objective arguments. People will be left to decide which arguments are more logical and true to them
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Igorkrnic
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How credible BITCOIN's "value" is

Post by Igorkrnic » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:00 am

I have been following coinmarketcap.com for a long time, since many years ago, especially 2016 and 2017 when I realized that big players make big money in cryptocurrnecy world, small players pick up crumbs, and regular people mostly lose money.
When I say this, I mean that big investors drive the value of Bitcoin mostly by mining or buying altcoins at low prices and trading them to Bitcoin and inflating its market cap. Small players are those who are mining altcoins but they mostly work to pay off investment to the hardware and electricity bill. While 50%-100% of almost every altcoin with the multimillion cap is traded to Bitcoin and this creates demand that affects Bitcoin price, mainstream media is abused by those people to push news how "this big shot said Bitcoin will do $10k" or "that big shot said Bitcoin will h it $1 million". By doing this, normal people are lured into investment trap where they are literally promised high profit "soon" so they buy Bitcoins. So while small people pay money at Bitcoin high price, those big investors earn money cause they either mined or bought bitcoin at the low price or they simply traded from some altcoin that they acquired at a bargain or mined them. When big shots earn enough (they know their timing, that's why they are successful) they stop or lessen altcoin 2 bitcoin trading so value starts to decline. Most of the normal people then "panic sell" and lose their money. When Bitcoin price goes down enough, big investors buy back bitcoins at a low price. And this goes on and on.

Of course, this is not the only thing that drives Bitcoin value but I saw this trend more and more and seems like speculation is the backbone of Bitcoin. And none of the news is actually reporting this because this is actually a perfectly normal aspect of economy and trading but it hurts small man, and cryptocurrency was invented to save small men from big shots. Here is a good article of why Bitcoin is rising but of course it does not mention this topic.

With speculation at the throne, performance issues and nowhere near unity with developers I really don's see any mass market usage of Bitcoin as real currency and currency is not just about exchanging it to other currencies, it is about exchanging it for goods and services - usability. But this topic is not about that. It is about how credible Bitcoin's market cap is.

I made some screenshots from coinmarketcap.com Daily trading (24h) volumes for some most popular cryptocurrencies so show you what I am talking about but you can easily check that yourself. Just go to home coinmarketcap.com, click on linked daily trading value for any cryptocurrency and you will see a page with most of the exchange pairs for the selected cryptocurrency (Some Bitcoin experts will say that "not all transactions from blockchain are shown there" to defend what I am saying here, and yet they use Onecoin's blockchain viewer in back office that intentionally doesn't show all the transactions as "proof" that there is no blockchain) and then, just inspect how many XXX/BTC there is (or even ETH) because somecoin/BTC pair means "somecoin" is traded to Bitcoin. That way you will see how much Altcoins go to Bitcoin and how many FIAT pairs here really is at Bitcoin daily volume (fiat pair is BTC/USD, BTC/EUR, BTC/CRW - Korean won, BTC/CNY - Chinese yen and so on)

Here is what I caught on screenshots on June 25. 2017:

I will start from Bitcoin of course.
Here is a screenshot that shows "find" for "BTC/" at 94 times - look at top right corner for every screenshot to see a search result:
Image
So, out of 400 shown exchange - pairs less than 1/4th (94) is involved with CASH, the rest 306 pairs are Altcoin 2 Bitcoin.
This does not mean that at 24h of trading bitcoin was involved in only quarter with cash trading. I imported all info from website to Google spreadsheet and removed totals for each exchange altcoin/BTC pair and I left only FIAT pairs.
Out od total 24h daily volume of $979,044,000, only $429,035,131.00 is with FIAT pairs. That is less 50%.

Let's see how Etherium is doing:

Here is a screenshot that shows out of total 329 showed exchange pairs, 43 was ETH/BTC:
Image

Here is a screenshot that shows out of total 329 showed exchange pairs, 193 was Altcoin/ETH:
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Seems like altcoin pumping happens also in Etherium but less that in Bitcoin.
That also proves Google spreedsheet with calculated cash trading to be $639,230,675 out of total $830,930,000 and makes 77% cash trading in Etherium. Looks a little bit more credible than Bitcoin.

Total daily trading values of both Bitcoin and Etherium were snapshot at the time of making this post on June 25 2017

We can also click on daily volume of some altcoins to see how much they are traded into Bitcoin. I did not count how much cash in % was traded, only pair numbers at different exchanges.

Dash shows 33 out od 88 shown pairs to be traded into Bitcoin:
Image

Gnosis a prediction market token shows 6 out od 16 shown pairs to be traded into Bitcoin:
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Litecoin shows 45 out od 400 shown pairs to be traded into Bitcoin:
Image

Monero shows 13 out od 38 shown pairs to be traded into Bitcoin:
Image

NEM shows 9 out od 17 shown pairs to be traded into Bitcoin:
Image

Ripple shows 11 out od 57 shown pairs to be traded into Bitcoin:
Image

Steem shows 6 out od 18 shown pairs to be traded into Bitcoin:
Image

Strat shows almost 99% of trading to BTC and ETH:
Image

Zcash shows 16 out od 37 shown pairs to be traded into Bitcoin:
Image

I did not make this post to show that cryptocurrency is a scam. Cause it isn't. It is people's capital that is trying to help people transfer value to purchase services and goods without banks. But being decentralized and unregulated it means anarchy so cryptocurrency got swallowed by big guys and speculation is all over it and this undermines point of cryptocurrency that was supposed to save small people.

Igorkrnic
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Re: How credible is BITCOIN's "value" ?

Post by Igorkrnic » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:58 am

It is well known that so far, decentralized cryptocurrencies have performance issues because it is very hard to impossible to make scaling since no entity owns hardware on which blockchain operates. We all know Bitcoin's issues and it remains to be seen how Segwit and BIP148 will impact it and what good will it bring and will it be enough.

Etherium has already begun to have scalability issues although its user base is not near its goal yet.

When we understand that there are value speculations that create volatility so some merchants will not accept cryptocurrency, that decentralized networks are unable to be regulated and are anonymous, when we understand that there are performance issues that can not be solved without ruining some part of network / value, it is pretty easy to understand what is Onecoin trying to do.

It is clear that most big countries will accept only centralized cryptocurrencies that can regulate transactions inside blockchain. Onecoin is there to comply. Also, being centralized, if a company want to be main "speculator" and preserve stable growth of its cryptocurrency then it is a way to go. We can debate whether it is good to trust in one company to regulate the whole cryptocurrency, I personally say I am all in cause I don't like what I see in the decentralized world. If one company is gonna work for the stable cryptocurrency, that's where small people should go.
Trust is very questionable in the creation of cryptocurrency but it is simple, you either believe/join or you don't.
This aspect also attracted many haters whom I have already categorized here. If someone does not believe in the company, if someone does not understand what is going on, if someone does not like some aspects of a company, he should not join it, but living a life trying to prove that his opinion and assumption are the truth is crazy.

I will try to give my 2 cents on Onecoin's value that is so highly attacked.

So, some people say that Onecoin's value is fake, not real and that company makes it up.
If you read above post, you can see that actually Bitcoins value is pretty fake cause altcoin trading to bitcoin demand is fake if you ask me. You can't do anything with most altcoins other than trade it to Bitcoin or some others. Exchanges are big speculators too so they, normally, allow all those pairs.

So while Bitcoin has 30-50% cash in daily trading volumes, depending on the day, and other demands are largely inflating its price, like trading altcoins and tokens into it and making the demand, we see Onecoin being "distributed" to their owners with 100% cash in.

So in order to obtain Onecoins, a person needs to submit Onetokens and they come free as promotion to Oneacademy Education package that you pay by 100% cash. The more expensive package is, the more splits, tokens and at the end onecoins you get.
If I draw a line and compare this to mining, the more expencive machines you get, the more coins you mine.
So we actually make a demand for Onecoins by exchanging Onetokens and we "indirectly" pay them by 100% cash. I see valid Economy 101 demand here. I must disclose that focus is really on education. They can degrade education packages all they want, They did not read/watch them at all. It can be used in life later in Financial world.

But actually, contraversy of Onecoin's value does not lie with the above-said cause that part being so hard proof of its credibility is not even mentioned by haters. They always attach for some other topics that can be subjected to personal opinion and misunderstanding and abused as an argument that Onecoin's value is fake:

So Onecoin started from zero and demand was what drove mathematics behind Onecoin price. Problem actually started when they launched new blockchain and premined all existing coins in genesis block and doubled it without price change. I personally can not explain how this was possible because I do not understand math behind it. It is very easy to say that value is fake and determined by the company but it is not credible to say that and forget that value so far was made by pure demand. But later on, we see much slower value incline because much more coins is mined then on old blockchain.
They also say that new blockchain made 5700% inflation moving cap to 120Billion Onecoins and say that should dilute value of OC. But they forget that value is not calculated the same as coinmarketcap.com and value is only calculated for mined Onecoins, not those that are yet to be mined, so it was nowhere near 5700% increase, it was actually only doubled and now they mine much more but also price does not go up every month like it used to on old blockchain, now it goes up barely every 4 months. This can also be seen in Ripple that has 100Billion tokens but only around 40B are on the market so their market cap is lower than it could be so some people say Ripple price is fake cause it would be lower if all tokens were in the market. Maybe, but, guess what, they are not yet all on market so price is what is. The same applies to Onecoin price. 120B OC possible does not matter. Only those mined and delivered in exchange to Onetokens matter.

So my conclusion here is that I don't think coinmarketcap is totally credible, that is just one big bubble that might burst, but on the other side I see the constant pure demand of people wanting to own Onecoins and paying One Academy education with 100% CASH to get them. I see the demand there. Also, while users and merchants accept Onecoins at current value, it is viable.

People also say that number of users decreased last months but they do not understand that more successful people see where Onecoin is going and are putting money into more expensive education packages to get more Onecoins so actually demand is higher. The same as if one investor in Bitcoin can contribute more to Bitcoin value by making $1 Millon transaction than 1000 of people with $1000 transactions.

But this post and Onecoin value topic is pointless cause we must realize that current value of Onecoin is INTERNAL and there is no point arguing about it until it becomes publicly traded.

Igorkrnic
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Re: How credible BITCOIN's "value" is

Post by Igorkrnic » Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:24 pm

And here is a practical example of what I am saying here. On Tuesday June 27th, coinmarketcap lost $25 Billion in less than a day.
At all time high, big shots earn money, then bubble is pumped out, prices go down, small people that are lured into buying expensive coins lose money, at least those who "panic sell" and most of them are like that. Speculators count on that.

Here is how it looks like when speculators deflate a bubble, all coins went down, bitcoin and etherium the most:

Image

This will not be possible with Onecoin. That's why there are so many loud people saying it is not "real" cryptocurrency.
If by "real" they mean "speculative" then Onecoin will skip that crap. Onecoin will be people's cryptocurrency that will be able to use it all around the world. The fact that we need to trust one company not to pull the plug is fine, it is necessary for any system to be controlled by something.
At the end, we trust Facebook, Google and others. They earned our trust over time. Onecoin will too.

Abilbek
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Re: How credible BITCOIN's "value" is

Post by Abilbek » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:45 am

As far as I know, to sell BTC for cash is not an easy thing. Also, the average withdraw is $240. There are 3 levels of KYC which BANKS and Financial Institutions require.

Typically, $1-999
$1000 - $2999
and
$3000 - $10,000 per day

You can move, buy or sell more, but it can't be "suspicious activity" from a banking standpoint.

Igorkrnic
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Re: How credible BITCOIN's "value" is

Post by Igorkrnic » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:28 am

Indeed, you can buy or sell as much BTC or any other altcoin as the exchange that you use is willing to buy/sell.
I don't think you can buy or sell 10.000 BTC that easy and on any exchange. Only a few exchanges can do it.
But of course, some big exchange that owns a large number of coins can, in fact, buy or sell large quantities to itself and that way inflate or deflate price to speculate and make a profit and small people lose money.
No Onecoin hater is fighting for those small people that lose money at the open market. For them, it is "normal open market" behavior.
That way they just prove they have no clue about finances. If also banks would do speculations like that imagine how volatile fiat market would be.
Coinmarketcap is unregulated anarchy and it is not good. The World needs cryptocurrencies that is a fact, but someone needs to keep them safe from speculations. Onecoin is trying to do that. Speculators don't like it and they train, pay and send dogs to slander Onecoin as it is a scam, fake, bogus or whatever. God sees all.

Igorkrnic
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Re: How credible BITCOIN's "value" is

Post by Igorkrnic » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:03 pm

Ok bubble deflate is happening. There are two main reasons for this:

1) Speculators are deflating cryptocurrency values to bring them down and then purchase BItcoins and Etherium at low value.
In the mean time small people that are lured to purchase BTC via media manipulation and predictions without any disclaimer how Bitcoin price will go to 10000 or even a million. Haters slander Onecoin with stupid misunderstandings that can trick uneducated man. That is why this forum is made.

Here is how coinmarketcap.com looks today major fall is happening:

Image

On these graphs below we can see the point what I was writing about here, look at the Global graph and look at a graph with out Bitcoin.
We can clearly see they are the same, whole coinmarketcap is actually lead and linked by the Bitcoin cause whole cryptocurrency market has the same ups and downs as the Bitcoin which proves a point of this topic:

Image

2) Bitcoin and Etherium performance issues are making bottlenecks and a huge backlog of transactions who wait to be confirmed.
They state they found a solution in term of lightning network solution where not all transactions will be validated inside a blockchain to improve performance, they will be validated on another network which runs along with bitcoin and etherium blockchains but is dependant on them.

More on that here for what bitcoin is proposing
As a result, it is possible to conduct transactions off-blockchain without limitations. Transactions can be made off-chain with confidence of on-blockchain enforceability. This is similar to how one makes many legal contracts with others, but one does not go to court every time a contract is made.
Here is a good article that shows how deep in crap etherium is.
“There are a lot of applications and contracts even now that are being built inefficiently.”
Now this might be true, but with a blockchain that can only handle 4 to 5 TS/sec. there’s only so much optimization someone can make. Ethereum has hit the ceiling with 300K transactions over the last few days and it won’t get any better soon as there’s no current solution to the scaling problem.
And here is more on what could help, one of projects in development, the raiden network.
The basic idea is to switch from a model where all transactions hit the shared ledger on the blockchain (which is the bottleneck) to a model where users can privately exchange messages which sign the transfer of value.
Raiden is implemented as an extension to Ethereum. A Raiden node runs alongside an Ethereum node and communicates with other Raiden nodes to facilitate transfers and with the Ethereum blockchain to manage deposits. It offers a simple API which makes it easy to use Raiden in DApps.
Question is, how will Etherium and Bitcoin implement it, they will certainly need hard fork, that carries huge risk to value and the future of those cryptocurrencies. Especially with recent record-breaking ICO Tezos.com

As for Onecoin, being centralized they can do so much more so much better. And since we can not really see all the transactions directly on blockchain viewer in Onelife back office maybe Onecoin blockchain already operates in similar way how Bitcoin and Etherium are yet to implement.
My opinion.

Let's wait for mid-end 2018 to see will Onecoin be able to make its own public market cap to compete with Bitcoin's coinmarketcap ;)

slobodanboda
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Re: How credible BITCOIN's "value" is

Post by slobodanboda » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:53 pm

I have personal experience and we collected several Power Packs with several people for each power pack.
It is normal that is not easy collect Power Pack for only one person but Power Pack has only one user.
What is normal reflection after this.
All people need open own accounts in next months and it means that in post Power Pack period will be opened many new accounts.
In this moment this is not obvious but who is familiar with this topic know about it very well.
Who looks narrow it's only wasting time try explain.
So, let's go no waste time.

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