USA vs Ignatovs - The EndGame

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SwissAndrew
Posts: 101
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:42 pm

Re: USA vs Ignatovs - The EndGame

Post by SwissAndrew » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:47 pm

that was good work Curry Hater - yes, I also smell a rat.
the emphasis must be to continue the program and try to convince the DOJ to view OC as it is operatling NOW,
maybe they do posess just a shred of humanity

CryptoXpose
Posts: 594
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:54 pm

Re: USA vs Ignatovs - The EndGame

Post by CryptoXpose » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:19 pm

Curry Hater wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:39 am

2) The purpose of this e-mail is unclear : making 25 000$ with 5000$ with 2 splits ?

Even if Ruja was talking about OneCoin, this is by far a very, very, very premature version. How can this e-mail be used as an evidence ? An evidence of what ?
Yes, OneCoin actually went much much further with the insanity, than the inital sketches Ruja made in email in 2014. PowerPack initially created close to 5 million coins max, with max 8 token splits, and cost 48k €. The implied immediate "profit" what you saw in Back Office was over hundred thousand percent. Of course it appealed to many people, that you could get with 48k € about 5 million coins in your BackOffice account, and BackOffice shows 1 ONE=9.85€.

Compensation plan is another thing. I have to admit I have never been expert in OneCoin compensation plan or especially interested in it.
My understanding about USA and pyramids is, that a scheme is considered an illegal pyramid in USA if there's no sales outside network marketing recruitees:
Here's a NYT article which touches this issue: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/opin ... oblem.html

It is what it is, I have not much to say about the pyramid/compensation plan issue, but imo it's stupid to make claims about the legality of the OneCoin MLM structure especially in USA, we have to wait what DOJ and the grand jury thinks.

I'll answer shorty to your number points:
1) DOJ documents imply there was several exit strategies, but only 1 was published :"take the money and run". We don't know about the other exit strategies yet. But why kill a milking cow if it's not necessary? Another exit strategy scammers use is just "let it collapse first, then take the money and run", like Bitconnect.

It's speculated that Ruja heard about the sealed indictment in 2017 (which was not public) , probably via Bulgarian police, and that's why she disappeared pretty much exactly after the indictment was created on October 12th 2017.
Image
page 16: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/press ... 6/download

2) If there's no some email available about exit from 2017 or 2018, it doesn't prove in anyway that they didn't talk about exit later. They could have used phones, Telegram, face to face, whatever..

Trueadvocate
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:57 pm

Re: USA vs Ignatovs - The EndGame

Post by Trueadvocate » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:38 pm

flatrate wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:34 pm
OneCoin is possibly the biggest organized scam since Bernie Madoff ponzi. I hope SDNY uses every possible day they have to prepare the indictment against Konstantin.
looks like your panties are showing again sonny boy. try and keep your excitement of a possible formal charged contained man..

sounds like you need a tim curry back rub mate. settle down. ;) ;)
Flatrate, I would give this to you: I really enjoy your sarcastic sense of humour
- To me, I am the kind of person that shoot first, ask question/s later ( only for
select few privileged people who has no objectivity at all or almost only if pressed
by a VIP )
Last edited by Trueadvocate on Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Trueadvocate
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:57 pm

Re: USA vs Ignatovs - The EndGame

Post by Trueadvocate » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:43 pm

Curry Hater wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:39 am
So, in summary, although noone filed a complaint in USA, the New York County District Attorney, Mr Vance, proclaimed that « OneCoin compromises the integrity of New York’s financial system ». Therefore, and in order « to protect US markets from fraudsters », he commended US Attorney, Mr Berman, to start an investigation.

Mr Berman then praised the investigative work of an FBI agent named Ronald Shimko, who filed a complaint containing allegations that OneCoin is a scam and that Konstantin Ignatov has been promoting this scam in USA and around the planet.

The day following the press release, an e-mail address was added to the press release (for people thinking they have been victim of OneCoin), presumably with the purpose of getting people to file complaints.

So, first of all, I still don’t understand how the so-called OneCoin scam compromises the integrity of New York’s financial system. In addition, there are millions of scams all around the world, why this one in particular ?

Second, the allegations attempting to demonstrate that OneCoin is a scam are solely based on e-mails. Even the allegation of the purported absence of blockchain is only based on e-mails. There is no technical or mathematical demonstration. Moreover, you may have noticed that none of the arguments spread by Tim Curry, CryptoXpose and others all over internet during these last 4-5 years to bash OneCoin, including these last days on this forum, have been used by the FBI agent. Not even a single argument from Tim Curry’s articles was used, although he publicly claimed he had demonstrated OneCoin is a scam in these articles.
Since none of these arguments (spread by haters all these years) have been considered to be valuable by the FBI agent (in other words, he considered this is all crap), it raises high doubt as to whether these arguments are true.

Let’s now have a careful look at the e-mails.

A] The FBI agent allegates that OneCoin is a scam because Ruja Ignatova talked about an ‘exit strategy’ in an e-mail from August 2014. The first option she listed was ‘to take the money and run and blame someone else for this’.

This e-mail, although suggesting an initial bad intention, cannot be considered as an evidence for the following reasons :

1) The exit strategy mentioned by Ruja Ignatova did not happen. Nearly 5 years after writing this e-mail, Konstantin Ignatov was still leading the company. He did not take the money, run and blame someone else. If OneCoin was a scam, Konstantin should have run with the money when the German investigation started or when the number of new members decreased, or even when banks started to shut down/freeze the bank accounts owned by the company. But despite all these problems, Konstantin stayed. This is not the behavior of a scammer at all.
Therefore, this e-mail is meaningless because something that did not happen cannot be used as an evidence.

2) In addition, this e-mail was written in August 2014, while OneCoin had not been launched yet. If this e-mail (talking about an exit strategy) had been written in 2017 or 2018 (or more recently), it could then be valuable for demonstrating the recent intention of Ruja or Konstantin to escape. But the FBI agent didn’t find such recent e-mails. The fact that he didn’t find any recent e-mail demonstrates that neither Ruja, nor Greenwood, nor Konstantin ever talked about an exit strategy again.
So, the only time Ruja talked about an exit strategy was in 2014 and, while it never happened, this is supposed to be an evidence that OneCoin is scam ? Nope.

3) The word OneCoin is not even mentioned. It cannot be proven that Ruja Ignatova was talking about OneCoin anyway.


B] In an even older e-mail, in June 2014, Ruja wrote to Greewood : « Your main sales argument is: after 2 splits, a member makes out 5.000 USD 25.000 USD. You should be able to sell this… I also added an Extra Bonus for all members joining the Presales… they can do actually 3 splits. Which means that will actually have 10x their investment. 2 splits is 5x your money. So of course, everybody who is greedy will go in with 5.000 USD. »

The FBI agent claims that this e-mail demonstrates that Ruja developed OneCoin Ltd.’s unsustainable compensation structure for the purpose of enticing people to invest in OneCoin trader packages.

1) First, isn’t it strange that Ruja is talking about dollars ? We all know that the education packages will be later sold in euros and in euros only.

2) The purpose of this e-mail is unclear : making 25 000$ with 5000$ with 2 splits ?
If we use the raw amount : 5000 x 2 x 2 = 20 000, not 25 000 !!!
If tokens and coins are in the middle (which is just a hypothesis), making 25 000$ with 2 splits means the value initially obtained with 5000$ was : 25000 / 2 / 2 = 6250$. So with 5000$, one would get 6250$ worth tokens and 2 splits ?
What the hell is this ? This is not OneCoin.
Even if Ruja was talking about OneCoin, this is by far a very, very, very premature version. How can this e-mail be used as an evidence ? An evidence of what ?

3) So when the FBI agent talks about the development of an unsustainable compensation structure, which structure is he talking about ? The structure was not made yet at this time. And anyway the unsustainability of the structure, whatever it is, is not demonstrated mathematically. Shall it be true, the intention of the unsustainability is also not demonstrated.

4) In the final version of OneCoin scheme (the one we all know), the compensation structure was perfectly sustainable. Actually, it was sustainable for ever and was even generating profit. I made the calculation myself. For this purpose, I tested the pyramid in stress conditions which means when both branches were equal amount at all time and for each member. This is the worst situation for the pyramid and it is statistically close to impossible, that’s why it’s a stress condition.
I chose the 550 euros package for all members to make it simple. Here is what happens to the amount of money generated by and remaining in the pyramid (only 15 generations under the leader are shown). As you will see, the total bonus/commissions to be paid increase by a factor that is higher than the remaining pool in the pyramid. Therefore, the bonus/commissions may reach and overcome the remaining pool in the pyramid. BUT, this increasing factor slows down more rapidly with the bonus than with the remaining pool, making the pyramid scheme sustainable for ever.
This is demonstrated by the calculation of the increasing ratio (bonus vs remaining pool) which only increases between the 2nd and 3rd generation, but then constantly gradually decreases in the following generations (shown in bold).
After 15 generations, the pyramid has generated nearly 18 millions euros profit (after all the bonuses being paid). This amount would be higher in non stress conditions.

So, I’m afraid this is called a sustainable compensation structure, contrary to what claims the FBI agent. And contrary to what FBI agent claims, Ruja didn't make an intentionally unsustainable structure. Therefore, his allegation doesn’t make sense and the set forth e-mail is unrelated.

I’ll stop here for now coz I’m pretty busy. Next I will talk about the OneCoin blockchain which clearly exists.

This complaint is an empty shell only based on e-mails. I suspect the goal is to scare OneCoiners so that they file a complaint by contacting the given e-mail address. Indeed, the judge cannot do so much if nobody complained about OneCoin.

Leader :
Package 550 euros
Pool : 550 euros
Direct sales bonus : 0
Network Bonus : 0
Matching bonus : 0
Total bonus : 0
Remaining pool after bonus : 550 euros

1st generation :
Packages 550 x 2 = 1100 euros
Pool : 550 + 1100 = 1650 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 2 = 66 euros
Network Bonus : 33 euros
Matching bonus : 0
Total bonus : 99 euros
Remaining pool after bonus : 1650 – 99 = 1551 euros

2nd generation :
Packages 550 x 4 = 2200 euros
Pool : 1551 + 2200 = 3751 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 4 = 132 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 2) + [(33 x 1) x 2] = 132 euros
Matching bonus : 1.98 x 2 = 3.96 euros
Total bonus : 267.96 euros (increase by a factor 2.706666)
Remaining pool after bonus : 3751 – 267.96 = 3483.04 euros (increase by 2.2456737)
Increasing ratio : 2.706666 / 2.2456737 = 1.2052804

3rd generation :
Packages 550 x 8 = 4400 euros
Pool : 3483.04 + 4400 = 7883.04 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 8 = 264 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 4) + [(33 x 2) x 2] + [(33 x 1) x 4] = 396 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 4) + (3.96 x 2) = 15.84 euros
Total bonus : 675.84 euros (increase by 2.5221674, decrease ratio of the increase 1.073151)
Remaining pool after bonus : 7883.04 – 675.84 = 7207.2 euros (increase by 2.0692268, decrease ratio of the increase 1.0852718)
Increasing ratio : 2.5221674 / 2.0692268 = 1.2188936

4th generation :
Packages 550 x 16 = 8800 euros
Pool : 7207.2 + 8800 = 16 007.2 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 16 = 528 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 8) + [(33 x 4) x 2] + [(33 x 2) x 4] + [(33 x 1) x 8] = 1056 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 8) + (3.96 x 4) + (7.92 x 2) = 47.52 euros
Total bonus : 1631.52 euros (increase by 2.4140625)
Remaining pool after bonus : 16 007.2 – 1631.52 = 14 375.68 euros (increase by 1.9946275)
Increasing ratio : 2.4140625 / 1.9946275 = 1.2102823

5th generation :
Packages 550 x 32 = 17 600 euros
Pool : 14 375.68 + 17 600 = 31 975.68 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 32 = 1056 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 16) + [(33 x 8) x 2] + [(33 x 4) x 4] + [(33 x 2) x 8] + [(33 x 1) x 16] = 2640 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 16) + (3.96 x 8) + (7.92 x 4) + (15.84 x 2) = 126.72 euros
Total bonus : 3822.72 euros (increase by 2.343042)
Remaining pool after bonus : 31 975.68 – 3822.72 = 28 152.96 euros (increase by 1.9583741)
Increasing ratio : 2.343042 / 1.9583741 = 1.196422

6th generation :
Packages 550 x 64 = 35 200 euros
Pool : 28 152.96 + 35 200 = 63 352.96 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 64 = 2112 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 32) + [(33 x 16) x 2] + [(33 x 8) x 4] + [(33 x 4) x 8] + [(33 x 2) x 16] + [(33 x 1) x 32] = 6336 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 32) + (3.96 x 16) + (7.92 x 8) + (15.84 x 4) + (31.68 x 2) = 316.8 euros
Total bonus : 8764.8 euros (increase by 2.2928176)
Remaining pool after bonus : 63 352.96 – 8764.8 = 54 588.16 euros (increase by 1.9389847)
Increasing ratio : 2.2928176 / 1.9389847 = 1.1824835

7th generation :
Packages 550 x 128 = 70 400 euros
Pool : 54 588.16 + 70 400 = 124 988.16 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 128 = 4224 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 64) + [(33 x 32) x 2] + [(33 x 16) x 4] + [(33 x 8) x 8] + [(33 x 4) x 16] + [(33 x 2) x 32] + [(33 x 1) x 64] = 14 784 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 64) + (3.96 x 32) + (7.92 x 16) + (15.84 x 8) + (31.68 x 4) + (63.36 x 2) = 760.32 euros
Total bonus : 19 768.32 euros (increase by 2.2554079)
Remaining pool after bonus : 124 988.16 – 19 768.32 = 105 219.84 euros (increase by 1.9275212)
Increasing ratio : 2.2554079 / 1.9275212 = 1.1701079

8th generation :
Packages 550 x 256 = 140 800 euros
Pool : 105 219.84 + 140 800 = 246 019.84 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 256 = 8448 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 128) + [(33 x 64) x 2] + [(33 x 32) x 4] + [(33 x 16) x 8] + [(33 x 8) x 16] + [(33 x 4) x 32] + [(33 x 2) x 64] + [(33 x 1) x 128] = 33 792 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 128) + (3.96 x 64) + (7.92 x 32) + (15.84 x 16) + (31.68 x 8) + (63.36 x 4) + (126.72 x 2) = 1774.08 euros
Total bonus : 44 014.08 euros (increase by 2.2264957)
Remaining pool after bonus : 246 019.84 – 44 014.08 = 202 005.76 euros (increase by 1.9198447)
Increasing ratio : 2.2264957 / 1.9198447 = 1.1597269

9th generation :
Packages 550 x 512 = 281 600 euros
Pool : 202 005.76 + 281 600 = 483 605.76 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 512 = 16 896 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 256) x 9 = 76 032 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 256) x 8 = 4055.04 euros
Total bonus : 96 983.04 euros (increase by 2.2034548)
Remaining pool after bonus : 483 605.76 – 96 983.04 = 386 622.72 euros (increase by 1.9139192)
Increasing ratio : 2.2034548 / 1.9139192 = 1.1512789

10th generation :
Packages 550 x 1024 = 563 200 euros
Pool : 386 622.72 + 563 200 = 949 822.72 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 1024 = 33 792 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 512) x 10 = 168 960 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 512) x 9 = 9123.84 euros
Total bonus : 211 875.84 euros (increase by 2.1846689)
Remaining pool after bonus : 949 822.72 – 211 875.84 = 737 946.88 euros (increase by 1.9087002)
Increasing ratio : 2.1846689 / 1.9087002 = 1.1445846

11th generation :
Packages 550 x 2048 = 1 126 400 euros
Pool : 737 946.88 + 1 126 400 = 1 864 346.88 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 2048 = 67 584 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 1024) x 11 = 371 712 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 1024) x 10 = 20 275.2 euros
Total bonus : 459 571.2 euros (increase by 2.169059)
Remaining pool after bonus : 1 864 346.88 – 459 571.2 = 1 404 775.68 euros (increase by 1.9036271)
Increasing ratio : 2.169059 / 1.9036271 = 1.1394348

12th generation :
Packages 550 x 4096 = 2 252 800 euros
Pool : 1 404 775.68 + 2 252 800 = 3 657 575.68 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 4096 = 135 168 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 2048) x 12 = 811 008 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 2048) x 11 = 44 605.44 euros
Total bonus : 990 781.44 euros (increase by 2.1558823)
Remaining pool after bonus : 3 657 575.68 – 990 781.44 = 2 666 794.24 euros (increase by 1.8983773)
Increasing ratio : 2.1558823 / 1.8983773 = 1.1356447

13th generation :
Packages 550 x 8192 = 4 505 600 euros
Pool : 2 666 794.24 + 4 505 600 = 7 172 394.24 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 8192 = 270 336 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 4096) x 13 = 1 757 184 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 4096) x 12 = 97 320.96 euros
Total bonus : 2 124 840.96 euros (increase by 2.1446111)
Remaining pool after bonus : 7 172 394.24 – 2 124 840.96 = 5 047 553.28 euros (increase by 1.8927419)
Increasing ratio : 2.1446111 / 1.8927419 = 1.133071

14th generation :
Packages 550 x 16 384 = 9 011 200 euros
Pool : 5 047 553.28 + 9 011 200 = 14 058 753.28 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 16 384 = 540 672 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 8192) x 14 = 3 784 704 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 8192) x 13 = 210 862.08 euros
Total bonus : 4 536 238.08 euros (increase by 2.1348600)
Remaining pool after bonus : 14 058 753.28 – 4 536 238.08 = 9 522 515.2 euros (increase by 1.8865606)
Increasing ratio : 2.1348600 / 1.8865606 = 1.1316148

15th generation :
Packages 550 x 32 768 = 18 022 400 euros
Pool : 9 522 515.2 + 18 022 400 = 27 544 915.2 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 32 768 = 1 081 344 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 16 384) x 15 = 8 110 080 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 16 384) x 14 = 454 164.48 euros
Total bonus : 9 645 588.48 euros (increase by 2.1263409)
Remaining pool after bonus : 27 544 915.2 – 9 645 588.48 = 17 899 326.72 euros (increase by 1.8796848)
Increasing ratio : 2.1263409 / 1.8796848 = 1.1312220
Great piece of work, Curry Hater for your indepth objective Analysis. Sherlock Holmes and maybe Moriarty
would be in awe of your such brillant detailed complete analysis of the "Whole Konstantin Affair"
- Keep it up OneCoin "Sherlock Holmes"! Bravo!

DelPiero
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:33 am

Re: USA vs Ignatovs - The EndGame

Post by DelPiero » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:45 pm

This complaint is an empty shell only based on e-mails. I suspect the goal is to scare OneCoiners so that they file a complaint by contacting the given e-mail address. Indeed, the judge cannot do so much if nobody complained about OneCoin.
Ya there is already "bloggers" rehashing this poor and selective conclusion, on blogs and on facebook (whit onecoin-debate as source....)

if cw-1 is sebastian the emails are not to be taken lightly since they will back his testimony (even if ruja our konstatin have a "alternative" explanation).

and again were talking about a complaint filed by some, if not, the best "scamwreckers" in the world.
you dont win 95% of your cases based on an email our to.

Also looking forward to finally getting the proof of onecoins Blockchain, since it so far eluded me, aswell as the DOJ, Hell it might be you need to be an anonymous german IT person to be able to "se" it.

EagleOne
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:35 pm

Re: USA vs Ignatovs - The EndGame

Post by EagleOne » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:26 pm

In the very first post in this thread, Igor stated, and I quote: "There is total 187 investigarions over Onecoin worldwide." which means there is an investigation in almost every country that OC does business. The reason why we were told these investigations were started was because Tim Curry, all of us haters, the banking industry and Bitcoin lovers told lies to the regulators and they believed all of us. Now Curry Hater has said that not one of the charges brought by the US DOJ had anything to do with Tim Curry, which also implies us haters, banking industry and Bitcoin lovers also didn't have anything to do with the DOJ taking these actions.

Only one problem Curry Hater, you do not know what information Tim Curry, or for that matter all of us haters, the banking industry or Bitcoin lovers provided to the authorities. Tim Curry has said from day one OC didn't have a blockchain, and one of the statement by the DOJ said OC did not have a blockchain. To me that means that if Tim Curry provided this information to the investigators then he did have something to do with these charges being filed.

The consensus here seems to be that the DOJ has to prove every point of their actions publicly before there is even a trial, or it is not believable and lies. This is not how it works. The evidence has been presented to a Grand Jury and the Grand Jury indicted Ruja. This indictment was then approved by a Federal Judge agreeing there was sufficient evidence for a trial to be held. The trial is to determine guilt or innocence, not a blog with posters giving their "opinions."

As for ONeCoin not being charged with running a Ponzi, well neither was Bernie Madoff but he was running a Ponzi. Ponzi is just a descriptive term applied to how a program was being run. The only thing that is common with the term Ponzi and the actions taken by the US Authorities against Konstantin and Ruja is that OC is illegal and Ponzi's are illegal. That's it.

Last edited by EagleOne on Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

flatrate
Posts: 606
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:42 pm

Re: USA vs Ignatovs - The EndGame

Post by flatrate » Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:47 pm

Trueadvocate wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:38 pm
flatrate wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:34 pm
OneCoin is possibly the biggest organized scam since Bernie Madoff ponzi. I hope SDNY uses every possible day they have to prepare the indictment against Konstantin.
looks like your panties are showing again sonny boy. try and keep your excitement of a possible formal charged contained man..

sounds like you need a tim curry back rub mate. settle down. ;) ;)
Flatrate, I would give this to you: I really enjoy your sarcastic sense of humour
- To me, I am the kind of person that shoot first, ask question/s later ( only for
select few privileged people who has no objectivity at all or almost only if pressed
by a VIP )
true, thanks man. this miserable pack of anti-one spaz farts are hard core drones that spent years of their lives with this.. who would do such a thing ? no matter how this shit storm ends up, health to you mate ! :D :D

detroyer
Posts: 181
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:41 pm

Re: USA vs Ignatovs - The EndGame

Post by detroyer » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:08 am

Curry Hater wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:39 am
So, in summary, although noone filed a complaint in USA, the New York County District Attorney, Mr Vance, proclaimed that « OneCoin compromises the integrity of New York’s financial system ». Therefore, and in order « to protect US markets from fraudsters », he commended US Attorney, Mr Berman, to start an investigation.

Mr Berman then praised the investigative work of an FBI agent named Ronald Shimko, who filed a complaint containing allegations that OneCoin is a scam and that Konstantin Ignatov has been promoting this scam in USA and around the planet.

The day following the press release, an e-mail address was added to the press release (for people thinking they have been victim of OneCoin), presumably with the purpose of getting people to file complaints.

So, first of all, I still don’t understand how the so-called OneCoin scam compromises the integrity of New York’s financial system. In addition, there are millions of scams all around the world, why this one in particular ?

Second, the allegations attempting to demonstrate that OneCoin is a scam are solely based on e-mails. Even the allegation of the purported absence of blockchain is only based on e-mails. There is no technical or mathematical demonstration. Moreover, you may have noticed that none of the arguments spread by Tim Curry, CryptoXpose and others all over internet during these last 4-5 years to bash OneCoin, including these last days on this forum, have been used by the FBI agent. Not even a single argument from Tim Curry’s articles was used, although he publicly claimed he had demonstrated OneCoin is a scam in these articles.
Since none of these arguments (spread by haters all these years) have been considered to be valuable by the FBI agent (in other words, he considered this is all crap), it raises high doubt as to whether these arguments are true.

Let’s now have a careful look at the e-mails.

A] The FBI agent allegates that OneCoin is a scam because Ruja Ignatova talked about an ‘exit strategy’ in an e-mail from August 2014. The first option she listed was ‘to take the money and run and blame someone else for this’.

This e-mail, although suggesting an initial bad intention, cannot be considered as an evidence for the following reasons :

1) The exit strategy mentioned by Ruja Ignatova did not happen. Nearly 5 years after writing this e-mail, Konstantin Ignatov was still leading the company. He did not take the money, run and blame someone else. If OneCoin was a scam, Konstantin should have run with the money when the German investigation started or when the number of new members decreased, or even when banks started to shut down/freeze the bank accounts owned by the company. But despite all these problems, Konstantin stayed. This is not the behavior of a scammer at all.
Therefore, this e-mail is meaningless because something that did not happen cannot be used as an evidence.

2) In addition, this e-mail was written in August 2014, while OneCoin had not been launched yet. If this e-mail (talking about an exit strategy) had been written in 2017 or 2018 (or more recently), it could then be valuable for demonstrating the recent intention of Ruja or Konstantin to escape. But the FBI agent didn’t find such recent e-mails. The fact that he didn’t find any recent e-mail demonstrates that neither Ruja, nor Greenwood, nor Konstantin ever talked about an exit strategy again.
So, the only time Ruja talked about an exit strategy was in 2014 and, while it never happened, this is supposed to be an evidence that OneCoin is scam ? Nope.

3) The word OneCoin is not even mentioned. It cannot be proven that Ruja Ignatova was talking about OneCoin anyway.


B] In an even older e-mail, in June 2014, Ruja wrote to Greewood : « Your main sales argument is: after 2 splits, a member makes out 5.000 USD 25.000 USD. You should be able to sell this… I also added an Extra Bonus for all members joining the Presales… they can do actually 3 splits. Which means that will actually have 10x their investment. 2 splits is 5x your money. So of course, everybody who is greedy will go in with 5.000 USD. »

The FBI agent claims that this e-mail demonstrates that Ruja developed OneCoin Ltd.’s unsustainable compensation structure for the purpose of enticing people to invest in OneCoin trader packages.

1) First, isn’t it strange that Ruja is talking about dollars ? We all know that the education packages will be later sold in euros and in euros only.

2) The purpose of this e-mail is unclear : making 25 000$ with 5000$ with 2 splits ?
If we use the raw amount : 5000 x 2 x 2 = 20 000, not 25 000 !!!
If tokens and coins are in the middle (which is just a hypothesis), making 25 000$ with 2 splits means the value initially obtained with 5000$ was : 25000 / 2 / 2 = 6250$. So with 5000$, one would get 6250$ worth tokens and 2 splits ?
What the hell is this ? This is not OneCoin.
Even if Ruja was talking about OneCoin, this is by far a very, very, very premature version. How can this e-mail be used as an evidence ? An evidence of what ?

3) So when the FBI agent talks about the development of an unsustainable compensation structure, which structure is he talking about ? The structure was not made yet at this time. And anyway the unsustainability of the structure, whatever it is, is not demonstrated mathematically. Shall it be true, the intention of the unsustainability is also not demonstrated.

4) In the final version of OneCoin scheme (the one we all know), the compensation structure was perfectly sustainable. Actually, it was sustainable for ever and was even generating profit. I made the calculation myself. For this purpose, I tested the pyramid in stress conditions which means when both branches were equal amount at all time and for each member. This is the worst situation for the pyramid and it is statistically close to impossible, that’s why it’s a stress condition.
I chose the 550 euros package for all members to make it simple. Here is what happens to the amount of money generated by and remaining in the pyramid (only 15 generations under the leader are shown). As you will see, the total bonus/commissions to be paid increase by a factor that is higher than the remaining pool in the pyramid. Therefore, the bonus/commissions may reach and overcome the remaining pool in the pyramid. BUT, this increasing factor slows down more rapidly with the bonus than with the remaining pool, making the pyramid scheme sustainable for ever.
This is demonstrated by the calculation of the increasing ratio (bonus vs remaining pool) which only increases between the 2nd and 3rd generation, but then constantly gradually decreases in the following generations (shown in bold).
After 15 generations, the pyramid has generated nearly 18 millions euros profit (after all the bonuses being paid). This amount would be higher in non stress conditions.

So, I’m afraid this is called a sustainable compensation structure, contrary to what claims the FBI agent. And contrary to what FBI agent claims, Ruja didn't make an intentionally unsustainable structure. Therefore, his allegation doesn’t make sense and the set forth e-mail is unrelated.

I’ll stop here for now coz I’m pretty busy. Next I will talk about the OneCoin blockchain which clearly exists.

This complaint is an empty shell only based on e-mails. I suspect the goal is to scare OneCoiners so that they file a complaint by contacting the given e-mail address. Indeed, the judge cannot do so much if nobody complained about OneCoin.

Leader :
Package 550 euros
Pool : 550 euros
Direct sales bonus : 0
Network Bonus : 0
Matching bonus : 0
Total bonus : 0
Remaining pool after bonus : 550 euros

1st generation :
Packages 550 x 2 = 1100 euros
Pool : 550 + 1100 = 1650 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 2 = 66 euros
Network Bonus : 33 euros
Matching bonus : 0
Total bonus : 99 euros
Remaining pool after bonus : 1650 – 99 = 1551 euros

2nd generation :
Packages 550 x 4 = 2200 euros
Pool : 1551 + 2200 = 3751 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 4 = 132 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 2) + [(33 x 1) x 2] = 132 euros
Matching bonus : 1.98 x 2 = 3.96 euros
Total bonus : 267.96 euros (increase by a factor 2.706666)
Remaining pool after bonus : 3751 – 267.96 = 3483.04 euros (increase by 2.2456737)
Increasing ratio : 2.706666 / 2.2456737 = 1.2052804

3rd generation :
Packages 550 x 8 = 4400 euros
Pool : 3483.04 + 4400 = 7883.04 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 8 = 264 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 4) + [(33 x 2) x 2] + [(33 x 1) x 4] = 396 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 4) + (3.96 x 2) = 15.84 euros
Total bonus : 675.84 euros (increase by 2.5221674, decrease ratio of the increase 1.073151)
Remaining pool after bonus : 7883.04 – 675.84 = 7207.2 euros (increase by 2.0692268, decrease ratio of the increase 1.0852718)
Increasing ratio : 2.5221674 / 2.0692268 = 1.2188936

4th generation :
Packages 550 x 16 = 8800 euros
Pool : 7207.2 + 8800 = 16 007.2 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 16 = 528 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 8) + [(33 x 4) x 2] + [(33 x 2) x 4] + [(33 x 1) x 8] = 1056 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 8) + (3.96 x 4) + (7.92 x 2) = 47.52 euros
Total bonus : 1631.52 euros (increase by 2.4140625)
Remaining pool after bonus : 16 007.2 – 1631.52 = 14 375.68 euros (increase by 1.9946275)
Increasing ratio : 2.4140625 / 1.9946275 = 1.2102823

5th generation :
Packages 550 x 32 = 17 600 euros
Pool : 14 375.68 + 17 600 = 31 975.68 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 32 = 1056 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 16) + [(33 x 8) x 2] + [(33 x 4) x 4] + [(33 x 2) x 8] + [(33 x 1) x 16] = 2640 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 16) + (3.96 x 8) + (7.92 x 4) + (15.84 x 2) = 126.72 euros
Total bonus : 3822.72 euros (increase by 2.343042)
Remaining pool after bonus : 31 975.68 – 3822.72 = 28 152.96 euros (increase by 1.9583741)
Increasing ratio : 2.343042 / 1.9583741 = 1.196422

6th generation :
Packages 550 x 64 = 35 200 euros
Pool : 28 152.96 + 35 200 = 63 352.96 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 64 = 2112 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 32) + [(33 x 16) x 2] + [(33 x 8) x 4] + [(33 x 4) x 8] + [(33 x 2) x 16] + [(33 x 1) x 32] = 6336 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 32) + (3.96 x 16) + (7.92 x 8) + (15.84 x 4) + (31.68 x 2) = 316.8 euros
Total bonus : 8764.8 euros (increase by 2.2928176)
Remaining pool after bonus : 63 352.96 – 8764.8 = 54 588.16 euros (increase by 1.9389847)
Increasing ratio : 2.2928176 / 1.9389847 = 1.1824835

7th generation :
Packages 550 x 128 = 70 400 euros
Pool : 54 588.16 + 70 400 = 124 988.16 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 128 = 4224 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 64) + [(33 x 32) x 2] + [(33 x 16) x 4] + [(33 x 8) x 8] + [(33 x 4) x 16] + [(33 x 2) x 32] + [(33 x 1) x 64] = 14 784 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 64) + (3.96 x 32) + (7.92 x 16) + (15.84 x 8) + (31.68 x 4) + (63.36 x 2) = 760.32 euros
Total bonus : 19 768.32 euros (increase by 2.2554079)
Remaining pool after bonus : 124 988.16 – 19 768.32 = 105 219.84 euros (increase by 1.9275212)
Increasing ratio : 2.2554079 / 1.9275212 = 1.1701079

8th generation :
Packages 550 x 256 = 140 800 euros
Pool : 105 219.84 + 140 800 = 246 019.84 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 256 = 8448 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 128) + [(33 x 64) x 2] + [(33 x 32) x 4] + [(33 x 16) x 8] + [(33 x 8) x 16] + [(33 x 4) x 32] + [(33 x 2) x 64] + [(33 x 1) x 128] = 33 792 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 128) + (3.96 x 64) + (7.92 x 32) + (15.84 x 16) + (31.68 x 8) + (63.36 x 4) + (126.72 x 2) = 1774.08 euros
Total bonus : 44 014.08 euros (increase by 2.2264957)
Remaining pool after bonus : 246 019.84 – 44 014.08 = 202 005.76 euros (increase by 1.9198447)
Increasing ratio : 2.2264957 / 1.9198447 = 1.1597269

9th generation :
Packages 550 x 512 = 281 600 euros
Pool : 202 005.76 + 281 600 = 483 605.76 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 512 = 16 896 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 256) x 9 = 76 032 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 256) x 8 = 4055.04 euros
Total bonus : 96 983.04 euros (increase by 2.2034548)
Remaining pool after bonus : 483 605.76 – 96 983.04 = 386 622.72 euros (increase by 1.9139192)
Increasing ratio : 2.2034548 / 1.9139192 = 1.1512789

10th generation :
Packages 550 x 1024 = 563 200 euros
Pool : 386 622.72 + 563 200 = 949 822.72 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 1024 = 33 792 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 512) x 10 = 168 960 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 512) x 9 = 9123.84 euros
Total bonus : 211 875.84 euros (increase by 2.1846689)
Remaining pool after bonus : 949 822.72 – 211 875.84 = 737 946.88 euros (increase by 1.9087002)
Increasing ratio : 2.1846689 / 1.9087002 = 1.1445846

11th generation :
Packages 550 x 2048 = 1 126 400 euros
Pool : 737 946.88 + 1 126 400 = 1 864 346.88 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 2048 = 67 584 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 1024) x 11 = 371 712 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 1024) x 10 = 20 275.2 euros
Total bonus : 459 571.2 euros (increase by 2.169059)
Remaining pool after bonus : 1 864 346.88 – 459 571.2 = 1 404 775.68 euros (increase by 1.9036271)
Increasing ratio : 2.169059 / 1.9036271 = 1.1394348

12th generation :
Packages 550 x 4096 = 2 252 800 euros
Pool : 1 404 775.68 + 2 252 800 = 3 657 575.68 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 4096 = 135 168 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 2048) x 12 = 811 008 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 2048) x 11 = 44 605.44 euros
Total bonus : 990 781.44 euros (increase by 2.1558823)
Remaining pool after bonus : 3 657 575.68 – 990 781.44 = 2 666 794.24 euros (increase by 1.8983773)
Increasing ratio : 2.1558823 / 1.8983773 = 1.1356447

13th generation :
Packages 550 x 8192 = 4 505 600 euros
Pool : 2 666 794.24 + 4 505 600 = 7 172 394.24 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 8192 = 270 336 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 4096) x 13 = 1 757 184 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 4096) x 12 = 97 320.96 euros
Total bonus : 2 124 840.96 euros (increase by 2.1446111)
Remaining pool after bonus : 7 172 394.24 – 2 124 840.96 = 5 047 553.28 euros (increase by 1.8927419)
Increasing ratio : 2.1446111 / 1.8927419 = 1.133071

14th generation :
Packages 550 x 16 384 = 9 011 200 euros
Pool : 5 047 553.28 + 9 011 200 = 14 058 753.28 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 16 384 = 540 672 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 8192) x 14 = 3 784 704 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 8192) x 13 = 210 862.08 euros
Total bonus : 4 536 238.08 euros (increase by 2.1348600)
Remaining pool after bonus : 14 058 753.28 – 4 536 238.08 = 9 522 515.2 euros (increase by 1.8865606)
Increasing ratio : 2.1348600 / 1.8865606 = 1.1316148

15th generation :
Packages 550 x 32 768 = 18 022 400 euros
Pool : 9 522 515.2 + 18 022 400 = 27 544 915.2 euros
Direct sales bonus : 33 x 32 768 = 1 081 344 euros
Network Bonus : (33 x 16 384) x 15 = 8 110 080 euros
Matching bonus : (1.98 x 16 384) x 14 = 454 164.48 euros
Total bonus : 9 645 588.48 euros (increase by 2.1263409)
Remaining pool after bonus : 27 544 915.2 – 9 645 588.48 = 17 899 326.72 euros (increase by 1.8796848)
Increasing ratio : 2.1263409 / 1.8796848 = 1.1312220
Great analysis, brother.
I didn't want to read the rags of the haters, but I think they didn't have enough arguments to beat that

EagleOne
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:35 pm

Re: USA vs Ignatovs - The EndGame

Post by EagleOne » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:43 am

Curry Hater, in regard to this comment of yours, and I quote:

"1) The exit strategy mentioned by Ruja Ignatova did not happen. Nearly 5 years after writing this e-mail, Konstantin Ignatov was still leading the company. He did not take the money, run and blame someone else. If OneCoin was a scam, Konstantin should have run with the money when the German investigation started or when the number of new members decreased, or even when banks started to shut down/freeze the bank accounts owned by the company. But despite all these problems, Konstantin stayed. This is not the behavior of a scammer at all.
Therefore, this e-mail is meaningless because something that did not happen cannot be used as an evidence."


This is nothing more than your opinion. First, Ruja did disappear late August of 2017 and has not been seen or heard from since. You have no idea how much money OC has, let alone in what bank(s) and under what name. OC used shell companies to open bank accounts in multiple countries instead of their own company name. You have zero proof there is any money left. No-one does except Ruja and Konstantin, and they're not talking.

Why would Konstantin not run? He had nothing to fear. If he ran, millions of people would be reporting OC to the Regulators in their country. If he knew there was going to be criminal charges filed against him he would have run. He thought they had plenty of time to continue OC before he fled the company. I can name you plenty of people who ran scams and did not run. He is not unique and is not a defense that this alone makes OC legal.

Just because you think the emails are meaningless and not admissible in court does not mean they are inadmissible in court. You are not an attorney and don't know what the rules of evidence are. By the mere fact they are mentioned means they will be entered into evidence at trial. I have no doubt the defense will do their very best to keep them from being admitted into evidence, but that is for the judge to decide if they are admissible or not, not you. You are entitled to your opinion but that does not make your opinion facts, as you have tried to imply they are.

In the meantime Ruja is still a fugitive from justice, and remains in hiding.

Curry Hater
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 6:45 pm

Re: USA vs Ignatovs - The EndGame

Post by Curry Hater » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:46 am

EagleOne wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:43 am
Curry Hater, in regard to this comment of yours, and I quote:

"1) The exit strategy mentioned by Ruja Ignatova did not happen. Nearly 5 years after writing this e-mail, Konstantin Ignatov was still leading the company. He did not take the money, run and blame someone else. If OneCoin was a scam, Konstantin should have run with the money when the German investigation started or when the number of new members decreased, or even when banks started to shut down/freeze the bank accounts owned by the company. But despite all these problems, Konstantin stayed. This is not the behavior of a scammer at all.
Therefore, this e-mail is meaningless because something that did not happen cannot be used as an evidence."


This is nothing more than your opinion. First, Ruja did disappear late August of 2017 and has not been seen or heard from since. You have no idea how much money OC has, let alone in what bank(s) and under what name. OC used shell companies to open bank accounts in multiple countries instead of their own company name. You have zero proof there is any money left. No-one does except Ruja and Konstantin, and they're not talking.

Why would Konstantin not run? He had nothing to fear. If he ran, millions of people would be reporting OC to the Regulators in their country. If he knew there was going to be criminal charges filed against him he would have run. He thought they had plenty of time to continue OC before he fled the company. I can name you plenty of people who ran scams and did not run. He is not unique and is not a defense that this alone makes OC legal.

Just because you think the emails are meaningless and not admissible in court does not mean they are inadmissible in court. You are not an attorney and don't know what the rules of evidence are. By the mere fact they are mentioned means they will be entered into evidence at trial. I have no doubt the defense will do their very best to keep them from being admitted into evidence, but that is for the judge to decide if they are admissible or not, not you. You are entitled to your opinion but that does not make your opinion facts, as you have tried to imply they are.

In the meantime Ruja is still a fugitive from justice, and remains in hiding.
And you are not an attorney either.
Everybody here give his/her opinion. If you don’t like it, go on BehindMLM.

You write : « If he knew there was going to be criminal charges filed against him he would have run. ». This is only your opinion.
You write : « He thought they had plenty of time to continue OC before he fled the company. » This is only your opinion (or your imagination I should say).

However, you write : « Ruja is still a fugitive from justice ». This is false. To be considered as a fugitive, your name must be included in the Interpol Red Notice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol_notice
Therefore, unless and until proven otherwise, Ruja Ignatova is not a fugitive.

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