OneCoin Market Cap misconception explained

Here we will post all original accusations and arguments people who hate onecoin wrote all over blogs and comments. We will deeply analyze, dissect and answer everything with objective arguments. People will be left to decide which arguments are more logical and true to them
Igorkrnic
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OneCoin Market Cap misconception explained

Post by Igorkrnic » Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:11 am

Since this Onecoin market cap misconception is spreading fast, critiques use it in their no-life business, and the company seems to decide not to answer on any of critique bullshit. I decided to make this thread to shed some light on Onecoin market cap.

Let's quote how do critiques calculate onecoin market cap. It can be seen on this page from onecoinscam.info that was completely debunked and explained here.

So they say:
Critiques wrote:Definition: OneCoin Market Capitalization on a certain date = Number of OneCoins in circulation (“mined)” x OneCoin price.
The graph shows the “Market Capitalization” in EUR ultimo each month (30 June 2017 is an estimate). From October 2016 on this value goes through the roof. At the current price of 12,45 EUR and 50,000 new OneCoins “mined” each minute, the total “value” increases by 896,400,000 EUR each day. It goes without saying that the value is completely fake, as everything in OneCoin.
Image

In a time of writing this topic, Onecoin's last block height was 413151. So if we know that every block mines 50000 coins it means that a total number of coins mined is 20,657,550,00. Add to that Coins mined and doubled from the old blockchain in Genesis block 1.98B that makes total Onecoins in existence 22,637,550,000, a total supply.

If we think market cap is calculated by multiplying the total number of Onecoins with Onecoin internal value (currently 12.45 eur) we could get Onecoin alleged market cap of 281,837,497,500 EUR. 281 Billion EUR ???

That would mean that Onecoin, still private cryptocurrency, has a market capitalization almost as JPMorgan Chase or Exxon Mobil, and more than Wells Fargo, Bank of America, Visa, Wal-Mart Stores, Procter & Gamble, AT&T, Oracle, Coca-Cola and more.

Unfortunately, I personally heard some Onelife leaders also calculate Onecoin market cap like this. It is wrong.

Let's analyze:

First of all, people think this way because when old blockchain was operating, dr Ruja herself said that no coins are mined without tokens submitted to mining. That was true cause more tokens were submitted to mining than the old blockchain was able to mine. It was able to mine 10000 coins per 10 minute block. Tokens were backlogged and waited its turn. I say this for a fact cause I personally waited for my coins more than six months and I submitted them in March 2016. I got most of them from Genesis block of a new blockchain.

So we know that at October 01. Onecoin had around 2.5 Million users if I remember correctly. Since Genesis block mined 1.98Billion of coins and coins from old blockchain end balance were doubled, we can say that until 01.October, 2.5 million users mined around 1 Billion of coins. So as many Education packages were bought since January 2015 until October 2016 by total 2.5 million people to provide enough tokens to mine around 1Billion coins and we need to consider much lower difficulty from the beginning.

As of today, there are almost 3.2 million users, meaning since the new blockchain was launched Onecoin gathered around 700k users.
So let's compare :
Jan 2015 - Oct 2016 = 2.5 M users = 0.990 B coins
Oct 2016 - July 2017 = 0.7 M users = 20.6 B coins

Anything looks odd? Well, 700k people can hardly provide tokens for 20.6 B coins.

EXPLANATION:
When old blockchain was operational, all coins were mined via tokens, and tokens were backlogging cause blockchain could only mine 1000 coins per minute. That's the first time where we saw the benefit of the closed centralized trial system cause they were able to make changes. New blockchain was introduced and it is able to mine 50000 coins per minute and now block lasts one minute. Since it is clear that are not enough tokens to provide for 50000 coins per minute, all those coins are actually mined in the main pool and when a user submits tokens for mining he receives coins in his wallet.

CONCLUSION:
Prior to OCT 01 2016, all coins were owned by users and difficulty raised with new tokens being submitted, and it was decided that the price of coin will be linked to the difficulty making it an internal price. Since all coins were owned by users that number was shown on the web site and we could easily calculate Onecoin market cap.
After OCT 01 2016, not all coins are owned by users, now the company mines coins to their main pool and those coins have no value. Only coins that were transferred to the user via tokens have value. So only coins owned by people are counted in the market cap, not all coins in existence. Means only circulating supply is counted into the market cap, not total supply. This is good cause the company can regulate the market. Save it from the speculations.

We do not know how many coins are in circulation owned by users, we only know total supply. Someone might not like this cause we need to trust the company totally. Well, Onecoin is such project where you either believe in the company and join, or do not believe and pass.

My guess is that thanks to PowerPacks, those new 700k users, a long with old ones could mine one more Billion to their wallets so I would say total circulating supply of Onecoin is around 3Billion so the market cap would be around 37 Billion EUR, close to Bitcoin, which is more believable cause Onecoin has more users than the Bitcoin (users with 1+ coin) and usability is almost the same currently. We will see what will happen when Onecoin will be also traded to fiat but I wouldn't brag Bitcoins fiat exchangeability cause only smaller percentage of it is traded to fiat as we can see here

We can see this as an example with Ripple.
Image
We can see that Circulating Supply is 38,332,289,584 XRP but Total Supply is 99,994,550,338 XRP, so Ripple's market cap is only counted buy circulating supply owned by users. Company will decide what to do with the rest of supply. So Ripple market cap is $7.3Billion, not $19Billion as is would be if we were to count total supply as people tend to count for Onecoin market cap.

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Re: OneCoin Market Cap misconception explained

Post by Igorkrnic » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:09 am

And in this post, I would like to shed some light on Onecoin value that is so strongly denied by haters.

First of all, we know that Onecoin started from value 0.4EUR. It was 4 token = 1 Onecoin
On May 2015 they were so surprised to reach couple hundred thousands of users and difficulty bumped to 6 tokens per 1 Onecoin.

It was decided for Onecoin value to follow the difficulty ratio (number of tokens needed to mine 1 Onecoin) and it was 1/10th of it.

So as users were pouring, money was pouring into Education packs, education packs brought free tokens, tokens were submitted to mining, creating demand for Onecoins. The more tokens were submitted to mining, the more Difficulty barometer was rising from 0-100%. When it reaches 100% difficulty would go up and with it the internal value of Onecoin.

The math behind this is unknown but also coinmarketcap.com math is unknown. Some one knows it though and I am sure they use it for their advantage.

This is how Onecoin value rose over time. I say rose because tokens are constantly pouring in. Difficulty could also go down along with it a value, but that was not the case. Some skeptics can say cause it is artificial. But that is just their opinion.
Image

NOTICE:
It is important to understand that since the value is linked to the difficulty, it is internal and since Onecoin can not be traded to fiat yet, it is not publicly credible so no point comparing it with Bitcoin. When Onecoin becomes publicly traded then the market will decide its public value.

At least on this sort of ICO, people obtain Onecoins for free but only through education packs that are paid with 100% money.
We can clearly see here that Bitcoin price is pumped and dumped as speculators suit and this clearly proves how something can have fake pumped value although it is publicly traded and fungible. As long as somebody wants to pay that price for something, it is credible.
The same is at Onecoin, haters can deny its value, but people are paying whatever is needed if they want to reach onecoins, also merchants on dealshaker currently seem to agree on the value so it is credible. Now, we will see what public trading will bring.

CryptoXpose
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Re: OneCoin Market Cap misconception explained

Post by CryptoXpose » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:28 am

Can you stop this "hater" BS. It's really childish. It's really childish way to try to discredit critique.

It's not "haters" who calculate OneCoin market-cap like that, it's OneCoin top leaders and Chris Principe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6oZ4gDhpws

And that is laughed about, because that is so surreal.

Also, any legit coin or ICO announces how much or what percentage of the tokens/coins are in circulation and how much is owned by the founder instance. Only OneCoin with its infinite "transparency" doesn't announce anything. That type of scamming doesn't even work anymore for any new projects, cause it's so old.

Also, please explain why token mining is needed in OneCoin in the first place? Obviously all coins could have been pre-mined, like was done for the 1986580000 coins created in Bangkok.
also merchants on dealshaker currently seem to agree on the value so it is credible.
Are you serious?? On the contrary there's a huge variation how OneCoin is valued there. I don't know for who you write these things. Certainly not for members who have checked DealShaker, lol.
Now, we will see what public trading will bring.
Yeah, except just in the last live Q&A, Ruja pushed back the public trading AGAIN. Don't be surprised when after half a year, it's pushed back to 2019...

Abilbek
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Re: OneCoin Market Cap misconception explained

Post by Abilbek » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:56 am

"The Bitcoin community has long recognized the need to scale blocks - discussions about this have been going on for the past few years, but different community members - users and miners - offer different ways to solve the problem." The option that would suit everyone is still not there, Which way is better, christened "civil war". "
The successful creation of eco-environment around Apple products was the fruit of the genius of Steve Jobs: his authoritarianism, determination, vision, sincere contempt for the valuable judgments of the surrounding crowd and a deep understanding of the essence of marketing.
Outstanding success, from the eco-environment of Apple to the theory of relativity of Einstein - is always a derivative of individual talent.
Decentralized crypto-currencies, not having an analogue of Jobs, or even a place for the emergence of a plenipotentiary leader, are doomed to the petty fuss of competing CSV (sense of self-importance) of individuals, "civil wars" in a glass of water, eternal budding ("forks") and perennial meaningless discussions About the complete nonsense.
They will lose time (already, in fact, lost - how many years already is bitcoin), and in the medium term they will free up space for properly structured successors.
In a decade, modern decentralized crypto-currencies will serve as curious examples of virtual curiosities of dead end branches of technological evolution.

Abilbek
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Re: OneCoin Market Cap misconception explained

Post by Abilbek » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:01 pm

CryptoXpose wrote:Yeah, except just in the last live Q&A, Ruja pushed back the public trading AGAIN. Don't be surprised when after half a year, it's pushed back to 2019...
IPO is not an easy thing, she looks at the development and then makes changes. But what prevents OneCoin to open XcoinX in 2018 even if the company is not listed on Public exchanges? And who knows maybe the IPO is not much needed for success.

Igorkrnic
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Re: OneCoin Market Cap misconception explained

Post by Igorkrnic » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:14 pm

CryptoXpose wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:28 am
Can you stop this "hater" BS. It's really childish. It's really childish way to try to discredit critique.
Don't get offended here cause this forum is not really about you cause you are a true critique, not a hater, but most of the people are just haters out there. But when I think about it, why to go down on their level, I will change word hater into critique ;)
CryptoXpose wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:28 am
It's not "haters" who calculate OneCoin market-cap like that, it's OneCoin top leaders and Chris Principe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6oZ4gDhpws
And that is laughed about, because that is so surreal.
This video again is one more example how you hook to things that are not important. You are constantly hooking to Onelife members small talk and predictions. This has nothing to do with official company announcements although this is just a talk of "where do people who watched that life stream think Onecoin will be in THREE years. The lowest guess was 75 EUR per Onecoin so they calculated possible market cap of Onecoin in 3 years if onecoin value goes to 75 EUR and when it is publicly traded of course. What they did wrong here is they multiplied it with 120 Billion. That is so wrong because of several reasons:
1) There is no chance to mine all 120 billion coins in 3 years. If a block mined 50000 coins per minute, that makes 2.1B per month and it will take 47.6 months to mine all remaining 100B coins (cause we know by now only 20B was mined). So in order to mine all those coins will take almost 4 years so they can not count "future possible cap" by multiplying "future possible value" by 120 billion
2) If we know that there will be no tokens with education packs after IPO, then we can guess that the company will just keep mining the rest of the coins and they will be held back from the market so capitalization will not be based on the total supply but by circulating supply.
This is why I made this topic.
CryptoXpose wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:28 am
Also, any legit coin or ICO announces how much or what percentage of the tokens/coins are in circulation and how much is owned by the founder instance. Only OneCoin with its infinite "transparency" doesn't announce anything. That type of scamming doesn't even work anymore for any new projects, cause it's so old.
Onecoin is very well known as private cryptocurrency project where not all tech info is disclosed so people who trust in the company will join and people who do not will pass. What you say there is just you declaring your self as a person who would not join any company if you need to trust it.
CryptoXpose wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:28 am
Also, please explain why token mining is needed in OneCoin in the first place? Obviously all coins could have been pre-mined, like was done for the 1986580000 coins created in Bangkok.
Well some sort of token is needed for any ICO. You need to buy ether token in order to get to ICO, why do all they not just sell coins or tokens for cash you need to ask them. If you dislike Onecoin ICO model you can pass.
CryptoXpose wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:28 am
also merchants on dealshaker currently seem to agree on the value so it is credible.
Are you serious?? On the contrary there's a huge variation how OneCoin is valued there. I don't know for who you write these things. Certainly not for members who have checked DealShaker, lol.
Incorrect. Value is respected there. What confuses you is that, as usual, you stick to things that look bad to you, and at dealshaker you stick at "bad deals". You assume that if merchants put a deal for something that costs 1000eur in your country, and he puts 100% OC price at 200 ONE which is 2470 EUR, you assume that he does not respect value for OC where he just pumped up the price, what if he sells that on Alibaba for 2500 eur? You assume and hook to what you think are bad deals. Let's not saturate this topic with offtopic cause I will lock it, this is supposed to be an explanation for how not to count market cap.
CryptoXpose wrote:
Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:28 am
Now, we will see what public trading will bring.
Yeah, except just in the last live Q&A, Ruja pushed back the public trading AGAIN. Don't be surprised when after half a year, it's pushed back to 2019...
Again you hooking on what looks as bad stuff. They also said that they are filing for financial licenses in Germany and maybe other countries. What if they realized that will take time cause it is not so easy to comunicate with several authorities. But maybe they just made a reserve to claim 3rd or 4th quarter and might finish all earlier. But again, please no saturation of this topic with offtopic.

CryptoXpose
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Re: OneCoin Market Cap misconception explained

Post by CryptoXpose » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:15 am

Heh, and another thread locked when you noticed your arguments were crushed, and you didn't want it public. You just have to have the final word in all threads as is obvious when you look at the forum.

True Onecoin way: If you are pointed wrong and a post is too inconvenient for your agenda, lock and censor, and call'em haters, and have the final word for yourself. Well done..

Igorkrnic
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Re: OneCoin Market Cap misconception explained

Post by Igorkrnic » Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:46 am

I did not expect anything better from you on this lock. I expected exactly this.
Nothing was crushed. You started to insult again and it is clear that you do not understand what I write. Whenever your arguments get crushed you start to insult. That is now a well-known pattern. And when I put a stop to it, you come and say how I am hiding something (yet all is still there). That is so pathetic and sad and I wish you become a better debater. Not to start insulting me. But that is because you are a simple hater.

And eagleone (tim?) again wrote 2 posts full of insult to me and default propaganda with out any linked source. I want only linked source information debated here. Sick and tired of random propaganda. We already saw how some of it finished (Macau event banned, Netherlands verdict)

I locked that thread cause no one reads it, I get bad feedback on why the hell am I even wasting my time on your opinions and that is just my personal debate with two of you and I really have no time and will to bash with you two. I already said I respect and disagree with your opinions. You write yours, I write mine, and let people decide. But when something goes too deep into nowhere, I need to stop it.

We will continue on some new topics.

CryptoXpose
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Re: OneCoin Market Cap misconception explained

Post by CryptoXpose » Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:04 am

all of the sudden market cap is no more important but now the focus is on "not being able to see how many coins are owned by users". Damn it :)

That is what makes you a hater, not critique. Cause when critiques talk about one point, and it is being described by the entity why is that done so, he does not find some smaller crack in the point. Haters tend to always continue and find smaller cracks to talk about. Not to mention all are based on the personal preference and opinions
First of all, the OneCoin market-cap has always been a joke for the critics, so yes, it's not really important, it's something critics joke about.
But what is important, would be to know what portion of the coins the company possesses. This kind of information is always public in non-scam cryptocurrency ICOs. But OneCoin doesn't want to release this information either. It's not an opinion that OneCoin is being very non-transparent, it's a fact.

Instead of trying to find the truth, you continue your apologistic behaviour. Instead of wanting answers from the company, you "explain" everything for the good of the company.

When the company issues a press release about Shariah compliancy of OneCoin, and the issuer revokes the Shariah certificate due to the broken agreement, you claim "Nooo, it was the IMAs and networkers". Then you close the thread. Well since when IMAs publish press releases on company website?

It's really frustrating to discuss with you, because you are not really even wanting to get the truth. You are just a apologist throwing out excuses, and when you can't any more, you censor messages and lock the threads. Really nice to write here, when I never know if the messages are published or not.

Igorkrnic
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Re: OneCoin Market Cap misconception explained

Post by Igorkrnic » Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:19 am

CryptoXpose wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:04 am
Instead of trying to find the truth, you continue your apologistic behaviour. Instead of wanting answers from the company, you "explain" everything for the good of the company.
You are wrong, you speak about something you know not enough about, I am as usual here to try to teach you. The same as I tried to investigate why they do not show all transactions in the blockchain viewer, I asked them why don't they show a number of coins owned by users. I will write an answer when I get it. My opinion, though, that is not important for now at all cause it is private and tokens and coins are given for free.
CryptoXpose wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:04 am
When the company issues a press release about Shariah compliancy of OneCoin, and the issuer revokes the Shariah certificate due to the broken agreement, you claim "Nooo, it was the IMAs and networkers". Then you close the thread. Well since when IMAs publish press releases on company website?
I remember that only IMAs reported that certificate. Maybe they even got it from CIBE. But IMAs are the ones that promoted certificate for Onecoin to help them bring in more users. I never saw the company announce that. If I am wrong, please show some proof, I really did not see it on the web site. All news is only what I posted there. Coin Safe is indeed Sharia compliant cause it has the option to change interest to gift coins.
CryptoXpose wrote:
Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:04 am
It's really frustrating to discuss with you, because you are not really even wanting to get the truth. You are just a apologist throwing out excuses, and when you can't any more, you censor messages and lock the threads. Really nice to write here, when I never know if the messages are published or not.
And what is the point of our discussion cause you came here to try to change my mind and when you see that I have an even stronger mind than you, you become pissed off and angry cause I have "an explanation" for all your arguments? But it is not my fault I have them, I did not invent them. They are here, I am just pointing them out. And you should see by now that there were some arguments where I actually agree with you, so you are not completely wrong ;)
And I lock threads where debate went so deep off topic to personal opinions that there is no point wasting my or your time. So out of respect for my and your time, I lock it.

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