Is OneCoin a CryptoCurrency

Here we will post all original accusations and arguments people who hate onecoin wrote all over blogs and comments. We will deeply analyze, dissect and answer everything with objective arguments. People will be left to decide which arguments are more logical and true to them
MrBTC
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Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 10:55 pm

Is OneCoin a CryptoCurrency

Post by MrBTC » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:42 pm

Features of Cryptocurrency’s are:
1. Finite supply of coins.
2. Accounts cannot be frozen.
3. Fully decentralized.
4. Node based blockchain network.
5. Searchable Blockchain.
6. Censorship resistant.
7. Decentralized / Flat structure.
8. Scale from pseudonymous to fully anonymous (how ells could it help the unbanked).
9. Open Source software.
10. Verifiable cryptography.

Features of OneCoin are:
1. Finite defined as 2,1 billion setting the market value.
But than on Oct. 1, 2016 changed to 120 billion supply of coins so not finite. However, 129 billion coins exist on Oct. 17, 2016.
2. Accounts get frozen for being critical and asking questions to support or upline.
3. Centralized (coin only run by one company)
4. SQL Database (with "blockchain app"??? according to Zain Khan bluedimond leader).
5.Unable to search, no transaction ID or timestamp.
6. Strong controled Censorship.
7. Centralized / Hierarchical structure / Pyramid
8. Control Identity / KYC (Not really, the system is so bad at KYC even Ken Labine's cat Milo has an account)
9. Closed Source software (no verifiabel code exampels in the future system still not operating to be deliverd by DXMarkets according to whitepaper).
10. No verifiable cryptography.

Conclution OneCoin is not a CryptoCurrency, but it does qualify as a membership token.

Igor, be a MAN, I dear you not to delete this post!

Igorkrnic
Site Admin
Posts: 232
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Re: Is OneCoin a CryptoCurrency

Post by Igorkrnic » Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:22 pm

First of all, what you wrote as cryptocurrency properties are actually Bitcoin cryptocurrency. Cryptocurrency is not bitcoin, bitcoin is cryptocurrency. It can be different from Bitcoin for sure. Governments and people will decide that, not decentralized blockchain enthusiasts.
Features of Cryptocurrency’s are:
1. Finite supply of coins.
Agreed, this one is one of benefits of cryptocurrencies to fight inflation that Federal reserves as private bank who rules this sick world is making constantly and we see prices going up only because fiat currencies are going down because of money printing.
2. Accounts cannot be frozen.
Not totally true. You are safe to save your coins only if you store them on your hard drive and from there you can send them to other wallets but decentralized cryptocurrencies are pretty useless without using one of many exchanges. Exchanges are all centralized, private companies that for sure freeze your account if you do not comply.
3. Fully decentralized.
It is not up to decentralized cryptocurrency enthusiasts to decide this one. People will decide. On the other hand, bitcoin is nothing without people that will accept it and also merchants. The same goes if some company wants to issue cryptocurrency, if people will accept it and pay money into it in any way, it is legit. Any individual can fork bitcoin blockchain, change whatever he wants and put code on github and make it public and decentralized, but he can also run it as private network in cloud where he owns all the nodes. Centralized model however undermines one of the main purposes of blockchain technology - TRUST. Cause it was born to remove banks as intermediaries whom we need to trust our transactions. Centralized network need our trust and we ask what is the purpose then. Well centralized networks solve many of disadvantages that public networks have, and yet they are able to solve trust issue too. I will talk about that below.
4. Node based blockchain network.
Agreed, you need blockchain with nodes to validate and trust that transactions are correct. Peer to peer.
5. Searchable Blockchain.
This is debatable. Cryptocurrencies seem to have explorer once they are publicly traded. But I still do not understand why is so important to be able to see everyone elses transactions. I think it is important only to see your own business.
6. Censorship resistant.
I disagree with this one. No censorship = Anarchy. We live in a sick world, you can not afford to have anarchy in a sick world. I think governments will agree with me but their hands are tied. Let's see what will they say when crypto-crypto regulated cryptocurrency goes public. Will it grant that public company any licenses. Are some doing that right now?
7. Decentralized / Flat structure.
I disagree that cryptocurrency must be decentralized. I think many more people agree with me. But we will need to leave this one as each personal preference. I just say that cryptocurrency pioneers are not entitled to decide this one. They are only entitled to think so.
8. Scale from pseudonymous to fully anonymous (how ells could it help the unbanked).
Anonymity brings anarchy. Not good. What is next, remove governments? No need to be anonymous to bank the unbanked. They all have IDs, addresses, internet, smart phones. They only lack banks to provide them online payments so their economy is dead and life poor. Cryptocurrency can solve that to them. At decentralized systems, no one cares about the unbanked, they only care how to make profit out of price speculation. Centralized system can actually make a plan and bank those unbanked people. Make physical exchanges, provide hardware and software for merchants. Similar like visa and master card are doing.
9. Open Source software.
Open source is always vulnerable to hacks, theft, performance issues. Closed source is better if you have good company to care about it. Good example is macosx. It is based on unix, and was slandered at the beginning by linux community but look how stable and secure macosx is today. Ok it needs to survive that negation stage to become selfevident.
10. Verifiable cryptography.
Yes, all digital stamps need to be verified as merkle tree root.

==============================================================================================================================
Features of OneCoin are:
1. Finite defined as 2,1 billion setting the market value.
But than on Oct. 1, 2016 changed to 120 billion supply of coins so not finite. However, 129 billion coins exist on Oct. 17, 2016.
Onecoin always did have finite amount of coins. Problem with people is who act as they do not understand what it means if you change your entire blockchain that you can change start of blocks to have more coins and all sorts of changes that they know are needed.
So onecoins first blockchain could mine only 1.44 million coins per day. I personally waited 6 months for my coins. That was not good. they reached narrow throat cause too much people are joining. The same is happening to bitcoin. They are now struggling to improve performance. But that is hard to do when you are decentralized, and they can not change number of bitcoins cause they are already public.
Onecoin was closed private project just like car manufacturers make beta test and release candidates for their cars before they hit public sale. So Onecoin could go pubic last year with old blockchain and die, instead they realized project is larger than they anticipated, and they decided to make more coins so people and merchants do not have to use 0.0000x OC to pay stuff. On new blockchain internal value rose way slowly than on old blockchain simply because much more coins are mined.
They were private, they still are, they CAN change stuff as needed. When they hit public it will be different story. You are entitled to fabricate conspiracy theories out of this one but that is just your personal opinion.
So, onecoin did not make inflation, it simply made totally new blockchain with more coins to truly serve mass market. Current blockchain indeed has finite number of coins available.
As for extra 9 billion onecoins in one block from October 17. I am disappointed you bring that one up as "proof" there is no blockchain cause the same happened to bitcoin blockchain on August 15th 2010. (ahh that August :D) where block 74638 contained a transaction that created 184,467,440,737.09551616 bitcoins for three different addresses.
2. Accounts get frozen for being critical and asking questions to support or upline.
The same as bitcoin exchanges can cancel your account if you do not comply, also onelife has compliance. If you break rules, sell coins, promise profits spread lies agains company your account will be frozen. No account was ever frozen for being critic. I am very large critic of Onecoin and I write them often and they never froze my account.
Also you do need to understand that onecoin is private, you did not pay for onecoins. You got them for free with education pack. You need to stop comparing current onecoin private state with other public systems. We will leave that for mid 2018. I personally agree that it is ok to freeze accounts that go and make promises and lies because that attracts law. I agree it is ok to block accounts of people who go around and lie that onecoin has sql instead of blockchain. Etc.
3. Centralized (coin only run by one company)
Yes, as I stated earlier, decentralized systems have their disadvantages. It is hard to project power and hardware, it is subjected to speculations, and it is no way regulated making them heaven for black market, terrorist funding and extortions.
Centralized system owns all nodes and can project power so transactions are always smooth, they can fight bad behavior, they can comply to government regulations. The only downside of centralized network is that you still need to TRUST single entity not to manipulate transactions. Onecoin will solve this issue by anchoring to public networks and store merkle tree root there so we will all know company CAN NOT alter any blocks without reporting to public cause if they do digital stamps will not verify. They CAN NOT change blocks in public networks. This is great.
4. SQL Database (with "blockchain app"??? according to Zain Khan bluedimond leader).
I really do not find interesting and professional to need to answer on such dum argument but since I started this, I need to finish.
How on earth can diamond member know that at all. In onelife, only crown and black diamonds can have some info, and I personally know some of them and NO ONE knows any tech stuff. Khan is no way credible guy, his sql story is fabricated to match Bjorns alleged Asenshia call. I will write about that deeply later.
5.Unable to search, no transaction ID or timestamp.
First of all, blockchain viewer on back office shows some central transactions (cumulated transactions) and you can see time stamp of blocks and txIDs there: https://d.pr/4NrWDw
Onecoin is still private so it does not have explorer. They say they are not obligated and they are right. However, I am working with them to explain that it would be good to implement it just to calm down haters. But they do not seem worried about haters.
Maybe explorer will be available once third gen blockchain launches, maybe it will not be. Cause I also agree that there is no need for people to see all the transactions, only their own. And you can see all your transactions in back office. Private networks can apply some permissions that decentralized can not and thus making it more resistant to hacking and spamming with less cpu effort.
Not having explorer is no way proof that there is no blockchain. That is but a mare assumption by developer geek people. Anyone can have their opinion. When banks start using blockchain I don't think everyone will be able to search all transactions, only their own.
6. Strong controled Censorship.
This is very good and needed to stop anarchy, speculation, value volatility. Longterm this will reflect on more stable price that will be more attractive for merchants to accept. That is the point of cryptocurrency in the first place, beside of removing banks, they are intended to be used for trading services and goods. What does current coinmarketcap look like? Army mines useless altcoins, trade them to bitcoin inflating its price, manipulate small people to buy bitcoin by promising sky prices and profit, and then they kill price by slowing altcoin->bitcoin trading and buy bitcoins back. And so on. Onecoin wants to regulate system so that it will be stable and usable. Of course speculators do not like this so negative propaganda, spins, lies are all over the internet spread by their useful idiots who actually believe in all that. Developers do not even understand this, they like technology and they live in dream that decentralized market is ok.
7. Centralized / Hierarchical structure / Pyramid
Life is a pyramid. Every classic company is a pyramid. Decisions go from top to bottom. Army is pyramid. Bitcoin can be seen as pyramid too. Cause if small number of largest exchanges can enforce user based soft fork to 90% of others, that looks like qa pyramid.
Also value manipulation is done by small number of people with the most number of coins and mining power (not all of them, but most of them). So in some point of view, everything can be pyramid.
As for current state, onecoin is private, it has company that runs hardware and software, and on the other side you have people who own coins. No man will have more than 1% of available onecoins, much more flat that bitcoin if you ask me.
Onelife is multi level marketing system that is different entity and I will write about that later in posts.
8. Control Identity / KYC (Not really, the system is so bad at KYC even Ken Labine's cat Milo has an account)
KYC is needed to prevent bad trading, money laundering, extortions etc. Prior to October 01. during old blockchain, kyc was only needed for cash send / withdrawal and it was account based, not implemented in blockchain. The same is currently imposed to bitcoin exchanges. You can not put cash on your balance and buy bitcoin or withdraw money if you do not get kyc approved. But public networks can never regulate crypto - crypto transactions so all this exchange kyc is good for nothing.
Onecoin went further on this one and started implementing kyc in blockchain to be able to track also crypto-crypto transactions. Currently kyc for CC-CC is not NEEDED because coin is private. You need to be kyc approved only for cash withdrawal and send cash outside your borders. Once public, onecoin will probably demand kyc approved also for coin sends.
I would not comment Kens cat really as he was making jokes with Tim.
9. Closed Source software (no verifiabel code exampels in the future system still not operating to be deliverd by DXMarkets according to whitepaper).
Closed source software can be better than open source.Apple macosx is living proof of that. It survived open source linux community negations and here they are. even Redhat realized open source has its limitations. The same is happening with some bitcoin exchanges. Let's see if Onecoin will survive shall we?
White paper that was presented to members was made for future software that will be used for public that is why whitepaper is not published.
So I think we will know when it is ready. Right now, current blockchain is sufficient for mining and dealshaker use. Trust is needed, that is bad but we are private and people who believe in company will join, others will pass. When they go public, some things are gonna be different.
10. No verifiable cryptography.
You can see all hashes, txID and merkle roots in blockchain viewer in back office. That is not explorer so no search is available (yet) and also not all transactions are included. More like some central account transactions are showed there.
Once public, merkle tree root will be stored on public blockchains. I explained that.
Again, not having explorer is no way proof that there is no blockchain and real cryptography. If someone thinks that is proof than that is his problem.
Conclution OneCoin is not a CryptoCurrency, but it does qualify as a membership token.
We will leave to people to decide what conclusion is, should decentralized enthusiast developers decide what cryptocurrency is or will people decide that one.

Nikola Korbar
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Joined: Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:31 pm

Re: Is OneCoin a CryptoCurrency

Post by Nikola Korbar » Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:50 pm

1. OneCoin has finite supply of coins. Bitcoin had overflow incident in 2010 when in 1 block more than 4 billion bitcoins were created. However, it was quickly discovered and fixed.

OneCoin had 2,1 billion coins on the OLD blockchain. New BC is set to 120 billion coins, as 2,1 bln coins were not nearly enough for the market. Many people from Bitcoin community claim that it is not true, as coins can be scaled down to 8th decimal. OneCoin can also be sclaed down to 8th decimal, but both people and merchants are not used to hold 0,0000... something when handling money, they want a bit more "rounded" numbers. Larger supply of coins will make that possible.

2. Igor made that statement very well. OneCoin doesn't target anonymous or illegal black markets which cannot be frozen (Dark Web is teeming with them). OneCoin's primary focus is to be fully aligned with all existing laws and regulations, which will speed up it's global acceptance.

3. Fully decentralised - NOT TRUE. In the debate, I deliberately asked Bjorn the example of a centralised blockchain. Blockchain, and cryptocurrency, can run on a private blockchain, which is distributed on multiple nodes, which are owned by the BC owner.

4. How can you prove that OneCoin doesn't have it's own nodes? If you cannot see them, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

5. Only for decentralised cryptocurrencies. There is not state institution/government or any similar institution that said so. That is attitude of decentralised supporters. When banks switch to blockchain, do you really believe that they will let anyone see how much money is being moved every day?

6. I agree with Igor.

7. We already discussed decentralisation, and it is not necessary to run a cryptocurrency.

8. Most regulators are slowly cracking down on this anonymity. When OneCoin started, most haters claimed that "cryptocurrencies need to be anonymous and decentralised". Not when EU and other countries are forcing most exchanges to be KYC compliant, your tune is slowly changing.

9. Open-source software opens the door to everyone to exploit any weakness in the code. We all saw how that turned out for most cryptocurrencies who got hacked. Bitcoin's case is cca 20% of all coins stolen.

10. I agree with Igor on that one as well.

MrBTC
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Re: Is OneCoin a CryptoCurrency

Post by MrBTC » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:55 am

Someone ells has gone done the work of PROVING THERE IS NO BLOCKCHAIN:
http://onecoinscam.info/blockchain-simulator/

Igorkrnic
Site Admin
Posts: 232
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:47 pm

Re: Is OneCoin a CryptoCurrency

Post by Igorkrnic » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:46 am

MrBTC wrote:
Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:55 am
Someone ells has gone done the work of PROVING THERE IS NO BLOCKCHAIN:
http://onecoinscam.info/blockchain-simulator/
That "website" will get its own topic here and "info" from there will be explained and debunked as totally incompetent personal opinions of few individuals that played with toys with limited function and tried to answer a puzzle of the technology behind it.

Needless to point that creators of this website made a disclaimer that all there is just their OPINION and by stating it is a ponzi/pyramid they showed either lack of knowledge what ponzi or pyramid are or how onecoin / onelife works:
OneCoin Scam Info – In our opinion OneCoin / OneLife is a Ponzi & Pyramid system
Here is answer on your particular Blockchain simulator link -> Answered

Fatiki
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Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:21 am

Re: Is OneCoin a CryptoCurrency

Post by Fatiki » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:02 pm

I totaly agree with Igor, we proud with you friend

OscarWSchmidt
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:05 am

Re: Is OneCoin a CryptoCurrency

Post by OscarWSchmidt » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:50 pm

Questions for educated miners.

Login and go to the Transaction of Block #0 (genesis Bock) at https://www.onelife.eu/backend/cryptocu ... 589c72d1c1

You see 1,986,580,000 ONE Output Amount, sent to Output Address 9UHVMKSB8xdgzjY5X82gC5An4NiupfiUE5, which is the combined number of OneCoins for all OneLife members (2.5 million on 30 September 2016 according to Company news), i.e. the result of the Coin migration from Blockchain Version 1, the doubling of coins and the OneCoins for all Ultimate packages sold before 1 October 2016.

Each OneCoin has a unique serial number (according to Dr. Ruja) and each OneCoin can not be in more than one e-wallet at the same time. Obviously this 9UHVMKSB8xdgzjY5X82gC5An4NiupfiUE5 is an address connected to a central/company e-wallet or as Igor calls it, a treasury account.
So these 1.9 Billion OneCoins MUST have been be redistributed to the 2.5 million e-wallets of OneLife members.

1. When were these 2.5 million OneCoin transactions executed? If you don't know the exact date/timestamp, what is your best guess?

2. Why aren't these 2.5 million OneCoin transactions visible on the CryptoCurrency / Blockchain screens?

3. In which Block were these 2.5 million OneCoin transactions recorded, what was the Output Total, what was the total number of Transactions? If you don't know the exact answers, what is your best guess?

Thanks in front.

Igorkrnic
Site Admin
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Re: Is OneCoin a CryptoCurrency

Post by Igorkrnic » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:20 am

Hello

What you are referring to is pretty much what some guys did by sending OC from one wallet to another and tried to see it on blockchain whatever (it's not an explorer). Since they could not see any of the transactions they made in blockchain part in the back office, they concluded that there is no blockchain. Except that is not an explorer and it is intended by the company not to show all transactions there.

Why did they decided that, I can't say but I disagree with that decision I even wrote them several times to make valid explorer.

What they told me is that Onecoin is still private and they are not obligated to show all transactions from blockchain. Well, I must admint they are right. But they do attract opposition on themselves from decentralized enthusiasts because the main point of the blockchain based company is not to trust in one entity.

Seems like Onecoin wants presently only users that will have high trust in the company. The others will wait for public release where they will launch third-gen blockchain probably, the one from dxmarkets and probably it will have explorer.

By writing this, I suppose I also answered your questions. We can not currently see those small transactions and those are intentional as the company told me. That does not mean there is no blockchain cause those transactions can be viewed by someone inside the company. In fact, those are questions for the company. Feel free to ask that question to dr Ruja for her mid-July webinar on onecoin.eu, there is a form below. I won't ask that question cause I am not interested to see all those transactions.

I always wondered why do decentralized enthusiasts want so bad to see ALL the transactions that are recorded in the blockchain. Why is that even important to you. You can for sure see ALL YOUR transactions, they are synced and stored in your Onecoin account in the back office. Sometimes it crosses my mind that people mention "not seeing all transactions" just because they can and someone pointed them to this "whole" that they can make as an argument but it's not an argument, not even proof, it is personal opinion.

Please read carefully my response to 2 posts from onecoinscam.info here

p.s. I posted your 3 questions for dr Ruja/Pierr/Sebastian seminar. Maybe they will answer it ;) I will not go into that since I do not have access to blockchain, just like you don't.

CryptoXpose
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Re: Is OneCoin a CryptoCurrency

Post by CryptoXpose » Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:59 pm

So, Pierre didn't say anything that the backoffice blockchain viewer is not complete. Instead he said:
"in the backoffice members can see blockchain viewer which shows detailed information about the blockchain"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RmLMyLJg88&t=188

So, what detailed information members can see there? Not their own transactions, even though Pierre implys so.

Igorkrnic
Site Admin
Posts: 232
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Re: Is OneCoin a CryptoCurrency

Post by Igorkrnic » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:28 pm

Yes, seems like they simply do not want to talk about "not all transactions are showing in back office" and recently I realized why that might be.
If all transactions were validated inside blockchain it would not be so fast. They seem to really have much different blockchain than any other.

Such tech is yet to come to Bitcoin and Etherium as lightning network solution where not all transactions will be validated inside a blockchain to improve performance, they will be validated on another network which runs along with bitcoin and etherium blockchains but is dependant on them.

More on that here for what bitcoin is proposing
As a result, it is possible to conduct transactions off-blockchain without limitations. Transactions can be made off-chain with confidence of on-blockchain enforceability. This is similar to how one makes many legal contracts with others, but one does not go to court every time a contract is made.
Here is a good article that shows how deep in crap etherium is.
“There are a lot of applications and contracts even now that are being built inefficiently.”
Now this might be true, but with a blockchain that can only handle 4 to 5 TS/sec. there’s only so much optimization someone can make. Ethereum has hit the ceiling with 300K transactions over the last few days and it won’t get any better soon as there’s no current solution to the scaling problem.
And here is more on what could help, one of projects in development, the raiden network.
The basic idea is to switch from a model where all transactions hit the shared ledger on the blockchain (which is the bottleneck) to a model where users can privately exchange messages which sign the transfer of value.
Raiden is implemented as an extension to Ethereum. A Raiden node runs alongside an Ethereum node and communicates with other Raiden nodes to facilitate transfers and with the Ethereum blockchain to manage deposits. It offers a simple API which makes it easy to use Raiden in DApps.
Seems like Bitcoin and Etherium can only solve their performance problems by implementing something that Onecoin already has.
That's why all blockchain "pros" did not understand it and they make jokes of them selves by "analyzing" Onecoin blockchain.

Clear proof how thay don't know so much stuff is that case of value overflow from Onecoin block where output was 129B OC and that was proof for them that it is not a blockchain yet they were ignorant that even worse happened in Bitcoin blockchain back in 2010. where a block made 71B BTC output.

Question is, how will Etherium and Bitcoin implement it, they will certainly need hard fork, that carries huge risk to value and the future of those cryptocurrencies. Especially with recent record-breaking ICO Tezos.com (which I am fundraiser participant too).

As for Onecoin, being centralized they can do so much more so much better.

DISCLAIMER:
Due to onecoin haters being unable to read and understand my words properly I must disclaim that in this post I did not state as a fact that Onecoin block chain has a lightning network like tech, I just could not miss to see the similarity of how the lighting network will work, and how Onecoin already works. Not all transactions are going to be validated inside of blockchain.
Sad thing is, when it comes to bitcoin and etherium, it is awesome, but when it comes to Onecoin, it is sql :D

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